Webb's downfall?

Les wrote:

I also think Webb was an early physical maturer which certainly helped his high school record. Webb did not look 18 when he was chronologically 18. Early maturity though, is just another way of saying he ages fast and Webb I think aged out of his running career. No matter how he trained I doubt if he could have had a long lasting Bernard Lagat-like career. All you have to do is look at his receding hairline (in high school).

^^^^This is a post I loved.

Rupp looked like he was 12 in HS. Webb looked 25.

When it goes, it goes quickly for everyone. Look at Lagat. Very quickly. He went from being super elite to barely worth of a US final. Sure it's a surprise to see it in someone nearly a decade younger like Webb but it's also surprising to see a guy bald at 20.

I certainly don't think the high intensity stuff helped either.

Also, none of these guys like being mediocre. Do you think Solinsky is motivated to train for the Olympic Trials? I doubt it. He used to wake up every morning dreaming of being the best in the world. Webb could maybe train and run 358 for 3-4 more years but that's like expecting Kobe to come off the bench for LA and be a jump shooter for the next 5 years. Not going to happen.

One other thing that I always thought about after my brother improved so much after colllege. I used to tell the runners at Cornell, "The ultimate thing isn't how fast you are at 18, but when do you stop improving?"

Yes, most people sort of follow normal paths. Big improvements up to 24-25, maybe a few slights ones until early 30s. But maybe webb was just older than his age. Or maybe his endocrine system was shot from that intenstiy. They probably went together and then psychologically he't clearly not the guy as shown by his Michigan bolting one who is going to stay around and be mediocre.

John Kellogg always said really hard stuff in HS RUINS runners. Webb had a great career. Webb wasn't ruined. He ran 1:43/3:46.

Having read the book that deals with Webb's college year it became clear to me - very surprisingly in view of his undoubted talent - that Webb lacked confidence. One poor workout or race and he immediately thought about changing coaches, location etc. etc. After a great XC season a few weeks off through injury made him lack any confidence throughout the summer track season - despite the fact his training indicated that he was in pretty good shape. Frequent changes of coaches in his later career also indicate a lack of confidence - not having faith in any particular system to stick with it through the inevitable ups and downs confident in the knowledge that the results will come eventually.

Against the watch you can hardly call his career a failure - but he surely had the talent to win medals at major championships? Maybe if he had stayed in college longer and learned how to race and win as opposed to simply running fast....?

Do we really think Lagat is done? He was sick before US Champs.. It will be interesting to see if his performance dip is just due to that rather than rapid onset aging.

It seems to me like milers just burn out faster. Maybe its all those hard intervals...who really knows. One thing I've noticed among the milers that do last...they race sparingly whereas I believe people like Webb and Centrowitz raced indoors and the spring track circuit prior to the summer track circuit.

Perhaps American milers just need to hold back on pulling the trigger until the important meets.

7 years filled with U.S. Championships, Olympics, Top 10 world, American Records, beating Lagat in the 1500m, beating Ritz in the 10K, running maybe the most memorable race of our generation- and then going to the Triathlon. Hugely successful.

ttc wrote:

...beating Lagat in the 1500m, beating Ritz in the 10K...

...and beating Symmonds in the 800m.

mark b wrote:

Having read the book that deals with Webb's college year it became clear to me - very surprisingly in view of his undoubted talent - that Webb lacked confidence.

I think this is also the reason he had such uneven race results. I don't think it's a surprise that he set the American record in a tiny race. There was no pressure there.

Laramigo wrote:

It seems to me like milers just burn out faster. Maybe its all those hard intervals...who really knows. One thing I've noticed among the milers that do last...they race sparingly whereas I believe people like Webb and Centrowitz raced indoors and the spring track circuit prior to the summer track circuit.

Perhaps American milers just need to hold back on pulling the trigger until the important meets.

I guess you've never heard of Walker and Scott and Coghlan?

Tyrell wrote:

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly, Alan.

^^^^ great post.

Old Man Strength wrote:

Do we really think Lagat is done? He was sick before US Champs.. It will be interesting to see if his performance dip is just due to that rather than rapid onset aging.

Yes. Done.

I think Meb will be done soon as well but then again Deena K is running pretty well still. It depends if being a Masters ace motivates Lagat/Meb. There isn't much of a living to be made as a 13:25 elite but there is as a 13:25 master speaking at every other Rock 'n Roll race.

Owned, nah. Just a different point of view. :)

User name wrote:

Why did Webb get so bad so quickly? I mean, his performance just took an absolute nosedive. He didn't even break 4.06 in his last race. As a longtime fan, it was heartbreaking to watch. I always wonder what would have happened had he been patient and stayed with Alberto...

Its simple really. Over racing pushed by a greedy agent. He may have had a couple of more quality years if his racing would have been less.

Lack of coaching direction didn't help either.

Meb will run the Olympic Marathon (assuming he qualifies) -

Possibly NY next year (assuming he is healthy)

Then Boston, and I could see him calling it quits after NY 2017. He'll contemplate retiring after Boston, but the money from NY will be too much to say no to.

When he's done running competitively, he will be making bank off of his appearance fees, sponsorships, etc... Not to mention his support from Competitor Group to do whatever for them. Credit to his brother, Hawi, for really having him set up for the long term financially.

Plus, by late 2017 - Meb will be 42. He has always shown great longevity and resistance to aging. But he'll have been a competitive marathoner for 13 years ..... including numerous significant injuries, that's an incredible run.

Keep in mind - he'll still probably run the marathons. Much like Bill and Joan - he'll still be out there running. He just won't be aiming for the win anymore. I actually am afraid for the day when he calls it quits. He is such a nice, humble, personable guy. When I see him in a race, I really want to see him succeed. Even more so than Ryan Hall back in the 2006-2009 phase.

"All you have to do is look at his receding hairline (in high school)."

Premature balding does not mean premature aging.

Yep. If you watch Webb's last mile race, it's obvious he just no longer has the body for it. Some runners' physique and biomechanics allow them to be competitive over a long career (Meb, Lagat) and some don't (Webb). Webb's body at Wanamaker in 2014 is simply not capable of competing at that level anymore. Webb in 2007 was just a different runner.

He always competed clean. It's almost a shame. He could have crushed the WC had he doped up like El G.

Consider this... wrote:

"All you have to do is look at his receding hairline (in high school)."

Premature balding does not mean premature aging.

It does sometimes.

I vote genetics. I do think he trained poorly (to excess), but so do most elite runners; the difference is that Webb had less ability to withstand it and declined faster than average. He was genetically programmed to be superior in his prime, but also to have a very short prime.

rememeber the 100 in 11 seconds he did in the middle of a 1500 for no reason

spec olympics

karpopper wrote:

rememeber the 100 in 11 seconds he did in the middle of a 1500 for no reason

spec olympics

He did it twice. The first time it worked fantastically well. Second time it didn't