Recruit question. How do you spot a bad program and coach

Bad programs will usually have very few out of state runners, decreasing quality of recruits, and consistently poor conference finishes.

Do not be fooled by p.r. lists. At the di level, almost everyone runs fast at some point both in Xc and track. But the good coaches consistently get athletes to the line in November and May healthy and sharp. I agree that some burnout and injury is to be expected at top levels but if you start hearing about how a team has just been unlucky the last couple years, be cautious.

Serious Xc runners should ask both the coach and runners how the coach decides to pick his conference and regional squad.

All coaches have to use their best judgment at the end of the day but if the process is a complete black box, be prepared for a very stressful October. There's nothing wrong with a coach who redshirts all freshman or selects his top 7 based on "talent" in august as long as the coach is upfront about it.

The team is as least important as the coach. Do the runners seem to fit with your dedication/ social expectations. If not, you should probably look elsewhere regardless of team's athletic success. I know a runner who ran for consistent nat qualifier who despised his experience because he just didn't fit with the rest of the squad.

Mizzou

Name Names wrote:

its recruiting season. How do you spot bad programs and coaches? Any tips?

D-1 Mid-Major Coach is right on the mark. To his/her comments I'd add the following.Does the coach respond to your e-mails?When you arrive on campus does the coach remember where you go to school, what your PRs are, and what you wrote in your e-mails?Does the coach ask you specific questions--for example, what are your goals, how do you train, what do you think has worked in your training? In other words, does the coach take an interest in you. If the coach simply asks, "Do you have any questions?" that doesn't cut it.

They bash your other school choices and coaches while recruiting you.

I like D1 mid major's response. You just know when you know and the trick is to be honest with yourself. My daughter's initial favorite dropped off her list because of the coach's mannerisms and personality. A school that hadn't been on her list became her #1 choice for the same reason. An important component was that he seemed genuinely interested in having her on his team - and promised that he would work for her through thick and thin. She believed him.

Funny, though, although he delivered on all promises, she was absolutely tired of him at the end of her four years. I still liked him but hadn't spent 12 consecutive seasons with him.

I coached HS and college.

The HS was a private boarding school, so some kids did come to the campus asking questions similar to a college visit. Some were interested in xc and track, and asked great questions. the most dominating feel from college recruits and HS future students was "do they feel ok around the school/coach/program?"

Some may not want workouts. Some may think they are a superstar and want to be somewhere were they are a star. The ones I wanted were the ones that chose the college or prep school primarily for their academics. That is real life. XC, track, that is all secondary. And, I preached that. I felt it was better for a kid to take a few days off from practice if he was stressed about a final. And, in the long run, these kids spread the word. I began to get better and better athletes. Today, even though I no longer coach, I receive IM's from former runners, male and female telling me of how they want to invite me to their wedding, baptism, be a Godfather, etc. It is a great feeling. Parents have thanked me, and some still do when they see me.

Choose the school first. The coach and team second. That's my advice.

How do they do in conference? Does the coach know his stuff? Has he trained some distnace all americans? Just don't go to Rutgers NB and you'll be fine.

Been there done that929292 wrote:

Also, don't shy away from any school because of academics. What I mean is, there is hardly and difference one education between Private and Public colleges. The only way you'll find a difference is by going Ivy League. If it's not Ivy, there is hardly any difference (with a very few select situations). I went NAIA because of the "education" and regret every day not going D1.

This is incredibly false. Sure, going to a private school that's mid-level vs a slightly worse public school means nothing, but going to a top program does not even compare to going to a run-of-the-mill college.

Seriously, in job recruitment, a master's degree from a mid-level school competes worse than a bachelor's from Princeton, MIT, etc., and the academic experience more than matches that.

If a program has one good runner and lots of average to below average runners do not think the coach is responsible for the good runner's success. Most likely they are extremely talented and would actually be even better if they went to a better program.

happened to me wrote:

If a program has one good runner and lots of average to below average runners do not think the coach is responsible for the good runner's success. Most likely they are extremely talented and would actually be even better if they went to a better program.

The University of Houston?

I'll throw in granular but important point.

Talk to someone who has been/is injured, gather enough info to make an assessment of their athletic training staff on top of your judgement about the coach and team.

Odds are you will come across an injury of sorts during your career, whether its an ankle sprain or knee surgery, having the proper staff in place to help you return to running is crucial.

It would appear to be pretty easy to weed out bad teams. It's not like you can't look up where they finished in big invites or conference. Also if you are going to a school that's close to you I'd assume you would at least recognize some of the in-state runners (if there are any).

Regarding turnover- While it is a valid factor to consider, remember only 1 in 3 people that start college end up finishing, whether they are athletes or not. So just because some kids left doesn't mean the coach is bad.

Things happen, people flunk out, they just don't like college, financial stress, jobs, home life.. all these things can cause people to leave school and they have nothing to do with running.

One of the examples I sit and talk to all of my potential student athletes is picking a school that is the right fit. Don't fall in love with my personality or training philosophy and choose the school because of me. I'll typically tell kids to look at a variety of schools early to get a feel for the type of school. Then narrow down a list of schools based on what you potentially want to major in. Narrow the list down further by visiting, talking to the team, staying overnight, sitting in on a class, etc. I usually tell families that financial aid and the coach are some of the last factors in making the final decision. Financial aid because you typically won't know the "real" cost of the college until after the fafsa gets submitted and all of the scholarships, grants, loans, etc. are tabulated.

If an athlete or parents ask, I'll always present our workouts and training program/philosophy. I want them to have a good idea of who we are and what we are about before they decide this is where they want to be. I like to think that the way we are presented during the recruiting process is the same as it is once they are student-athletes here.

If you're only dealing with an assistant coach or a graduate assistant but never the head coach. First, how the hell are you supposed to know if you even want to make an official visit at a school let alone run there for four years if you have no personal interaction with the HC? Second, if the HC is too busy, disinterested or lazy to have, at some point, a brief chat or exchange a few emails with a recruit, how much time do you suppose the kid will get once s/he is in the door?

"If you're only dealing with an assistant coach or a graduate assistant but never the head coach. First, how the hell are you supposed to know if you even want to make an official visit at a school let alone run there for four years if you have no personal interaction with the HC? Second, if the HC is too busy, disinterested or lazy to have, at some point, a brief chat or exchange a few emails with a recruit, how much time do you suppose the kid will get once s/he is in the door?"

Depends on what you are looking for. If the HC gives you the money and then lets you "enjoy" college without stepping too much in your life it's not necessary a bad choice

Certainly looking at results is obvious but when coach tells you "we had 2 or 3 sick. Or injured. Or we are young and they just didn't handle the pressure. These excuses from a power 5 school league with major amount of money in the sport should be a siren with flashing lights going off to stay away.

But worst sign is when the 30 year veteran coach tells you while visiting your home that "I let all the runners design their own training plans" Excuse me but did you just say you let each individual design their own training? True story from a school this fall!

He obviously learned to do his job in the past 30 years

He lets you make your own decision, if you are committed you will be successful while making right choices on your own. Thats how life is. A college coach shouldn't try to control you training, eating, recovering,..schedule

A good coach:

- can recruit kids easily

- knows many stories about running

- doesn't blame anyone (not even himself) if a goal was not met

- has a good word for every runner, even from the rival teams

- pays attention to all runners, no matter their performance, as long as they are passionate

- never gives up in training a runner

This is an interview I would have with a coach:

- how and where do you recruit kids from?

- tell me a story from a race or a funny story from a workout.

- what do you do if you and/or a runner doesn't meet a goal? (should answer adjust the training plan)

- what do you do if you see that a runner wants to quit a race? And if is not from your team?

- what do you do if a runner doesn't progress in a long time?

And so on...

Sheez really??? wrote:

Certainly looking at results is obvious but when coach tells you "we had 2 or 3 sick. Or injured. Or we are young and they just didn't handle the pressure. These excuses from a power 5 school league with major amount of money in the sport should be a siren with flashing lights going off to stay away.

But worst sign is when the 30 year veteran coach tells you while visiting your home that "I let all the runners design their own training plans" Excuse me but did you just say you let each individual design their own training? True story from a school this fall!

What region was this coach from? I had a similar experience...however, it really did seem like they had a few kids sick and injured (it happens to every college team) and I interpreted it as "I encourage my athletes to take some ownership of their training with my guidance...not on their own, but to be able to make some independent decisions." Just curious...