LRC Discussion: Finding the proper way to discuss eating disorders/women's weight issues on LetsRun.com

hi, It\'s me patti...I suffered from an ED for most of my running and for a time afterwards. I set many records World and American, coursef records while suffering. Suffering isn\'t even close to a word to describe what it is like to live living a life of ED. It really is a life with the F. LIE.

I am so open to discuss, share and help. It is something I have been doing in another realm.

Yes, I agree talking needs to be more open to alleviate the shame, the embarrassment, the humiliation all of which drives a person into depression which leads to a gadawful existence.

After many years of being \"clean\" ( if you want to use the lingo) I am happy to say...yeah, crap happens, life moves on...and it\'s what you make of it.

With that said...having an ED, like I mentioned is gadawful. Absolutely, positively...insanely crazy...and you are almost sane all the while.... living a crazy routine.

Let\'s talk.

What I did to help myself was unacceptable according to PEOPLE magazine. ( I was to be part of an article back in , hmm, I think in 1992, but was scraped because I didn\'t go the traditional MD route.

Apparently, one does not do therapy on their own and be \"cured\" I dispute.

So let chat happen...it needs to happen. It can happen to anybody...your son, your daughter, niece, nephew, sister, brother, mom and dad a cousin a friend.

All in all..it truly is an awful existence. But with help you will make it through and welcome a whole and viable life.

Edit Message

CoachN,

Sorry... you misread my post. I never compared ED to PED... I stated RED-S, which stands for Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport. In no capacity would I compare an eating disorder to performance enhancement.

Sorry for the confusion.

txRUNNERgirl,

You are exactly correct... and that is what they are paid to do. At least the majority approach it in this manner. There are some that value the long-term development approach. I think Coach Gary at Furman... Coach Chapman when he was at Indiana... Oregon to a certain extent... but this is a rare occurrence in collegiate sports. At the big programs, there is a tremendous amount of pressure to win conference and qualify athletes for nationals. And, this is what makes the culture so difficult to change.

I'm all about winning, but it can't be at the risk of the athlete's health. Thanks for sharing txRUNNERgirl.

One of the reasons why eating disorders are so prevalent is because people do not talk about it, it should be talked about more openly. Why does it have to be an attack to approach someone and say "I'm worried about your weight loss" or "I'm worried about so and so's weight loss". Obviously if it is a "bashing" sort of comment, or derogatory in some way then there is no constructive reason to have it on the boards. I've been on female teams were this is a problem. The person and the team usually do a really good job at looking the other way and dwelling in denial. A lot of times an anorexic person is overly defensive when approached and will lie about what they eat and go so far as to throw away food to hide their issues. With someone like that, it's important to call it out the way it is and not tip toe around the issue. It doesn't just effect that one person either, it can become team wide if the ill person gets rewards for being faster and other people think they need to be that way too in order to "get on the traveling team" or improve. Also, as someone mentioned earlier, a lot of times an anorexic person will hide behind food allergies or intolerance's in order to "not eat" when everyone else is eating (oh I can't join you for pizza because I'm gluten intolerant, oh I forgot to mention I can't eat tomatoes I will have to pass on that pasta you made everyone, I'll eat later). We need to be more open about all of this! I disagree that censoring will help anything except enable to the systemic problem to continue.

Great video that addresses RED-S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlV5mVOGo1c

Anon wrote:

...There are, in fact, life-long consequences to disordered eating, and it is heartbreaking to see talented female runners fall victim to round after round of stress fractures (due to compromised bone density), reduced fertility, etc.

...But, eating disorders are hugely complicated.

.

I'd also like to add that watching friends, acquaintances, and fellow runners just treat one of the symptoms of this disordered mindset - amenorrhea - with contraceptives to restore hormonal balance does NOT solve the entire problem. So often I hear female athletes say they are fine and don't need to change their routine because they are getting their period, but it is only with the help of birth control. While it is a good stop-gap measure to halt the damage to one's body while they pursue treatment, that does not make them healthy. They are still in a huge energy/caloric deficit.

This discussion is really good. I'm a female who ran at DI level before it was classified that way then spent over 30 years as a healthcare provider. Fortunately I never suffered from an eating disorder however there were things I did as a college athlete that provoked concern in others. I had undiagnosed polycystic ovarian disease which caused slightly higher than normal testosterone levels. When I lifted weights November-May and trained for track I would put on 15 pounds then would lose them by cross-country season when I shifted training. When I liked something I would eat a lot of it. In the dorms, I would return for multiple helpings on some days. I appreciated those who expressed concern and discussed the issue with me. In my professional career I have seen many who feel the same. Normal athletic females who don't mind discussing how they eat. Sadly more and more I am seeing some athletic females who probably have heard too much concern and voluntarily bring up their calorie intake.

After taking a break from school sports for several years I was a bit shocked to see how the middle of the pack females have changed. They seem much heavier. There are those that tone-up and improve substantially in college without becoming too thin. One coach told me that many of his non-scoring runners actually lose weight after graduation. Several years ago I had a discussion with some athletes who felt being too thin was more of a health issue for high schoolers and college students than being obese. Their rationale was that being too thin can necessitate hospitalization. Most had known someone from their area who had been admitted for ED treatment.

The focus now seems to be on pounds and BMI. We used to discuss body fat percentage or the Kellogs "pinch an inch" campaign. Another concept that seems to have been lost is frame size. Us older folks remember the small, medium and large frame size charts. Even with the conversion to BMI we still understood that some could be too thin at BMI 19 while others had high body fat at BMI 24.5. Many of those I have heard described as too thin are small framed women with developed muscles.

There have always been women whose careers were cut short due to ED related injuries and health problems. I agree with sharing concerns about specific individuals with coaches and medical staffs in person. They can help buffer healthy athletes from too many comments as well as discuss the issue with those who need to hear it. I am delighted that Crystal Nelson got her 7th place at Nationals last year and hope it gives her a frame a reference of how good she could be if she ran healthy. I applaud her for sharing her story and wish her the best. Sharing non-identified individual stories on a site like this does allow others to better understand the consequences of eating disorders.

patti wrote:

What I did to help myself was unacceptable according to PEOPLE magazine. ( I was to be part of an article back in , hmm, I think in 1992, but was scraped because I didn't go the traditional MD route.

Good for you not going that route.

The focus should be on listening to, enabling and helping young women.

Someone asked if this is mostly an American issue and I had never wondered about that.

It has to affect people everywhere but to our British friends, does the problem seem worse in America?

I think there should be hesitation in comparing earring disorders and use of performance enhancing drugs on a point by point basis, but mental health is a root cause of both of these epidemics in the vanity-centric U.S.

In fact for either to be treated effectively, dedicated psychotherapy and an authentic willingness to change is requisite. And, punishment is of ineffective (but often utilized) in trying to curb the behavior.

wejo wrote:

Someone asked if this is mostly an American issue and I had never wondered about that.

It has to affect people everywhere but to our British friends, does the problem seem worse in America?

Weej, good god, it is overwhelmingly an American problem. No other country is so obsessed with physical perfection (altho Brazilians are addicted to plastic surgery). And it is also overwhelmingly a female problem.

I have much to say about this and applaud you guys talking about this issue seriously. Take it or leave it, but I put up this blog post after reading this thread and a series of events and discussions about this touchy subject over the past few months. In summary, I am a professional counselor and sport psychology consultant in TX who works with these types of issues professionally-I also struggled with disordered eating in my 20s as well. There is a lot of confusion of conversations and things that are part of running culture that intentional or not, inadvertedly sets others back. Thanks for your consideration. Adrienne L. http://www.adriennelangelier.com/2015/10/negative-body-image-and-eating.html

Hey all. This has been a fantastic discussion and I applaud LetsRun for allowing an open dialogue on eating disorders and running, which is so desperately needed.

Just wanting to chime in with my take on eating disorders being "mostly an American issue":

Eating disorders are most common in the United States and in the world's most prosperous countries-- Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, most of Europe, South Africa. This is because eating disorders are a complex combination of the biological, psychological, and social aspects of one's life. So, you could have someone in a third-world country with biological and psychological tendencies towards obsessive-compulsiveness, anxiety, or depression, but then NOT have a social environment that when put into a "mixing bowl" (this is how my therapist would describe this process), you wouldn't end up with an eating disorder such as anorexia or bulimia. In other words, third-world countries don't have access to Instagram and media 24/7 that perpetually displays rail-thin models/unrealistic ideals on what one's body "should" look like. Third-world countries also don't have access to the enormous variety of foods we do here, which has allowed for many here in the US and in "first world" countries to become more and more "picky" (restricting/orthorexic tendencies) and turn to certain types of food for perceived control. Additionally, I would argue third-world countries experience a different form of stress. They are lower on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, so they are worrying about shelter, clothing, safety, and then getting in enough food-- which, by the way, starvation causes all sorts of issues in attempting to get out of poverty (which is the same as anorexics at their worst times-- brain fog/inability to make proper decisions/properly care for oneself). Here in the US, stress from working too much or relationship problems causes many to turn to food again as a source of control and/or to deal with one's emotions.

So, all this is to say in prosperous countries, generally there is the right mix of biological, psychological, and social factors to produce an eating disorder in individuals. I do believe they're most common in the United States, however in countries such as France, Britain, and Australia/New Zealand especially I know it is also a big-time issue. Obviously here in the US it is also the most common in combination with running because of the way our sports are structured: the large NCAA system and scholarships and then the pressure that comes along with all of that. And again when you mix someone's biological and psychological make-up with their social environment that includes running, oftentimes that is unfortunately just the right combination for an eating disorder to emerge.

By the way, I'm studying to become a psychotherapist with the hopes of helping treat eating disorders, particularly in athletes. I don't think coaches are worked with enough on how to deal with disordered eating/eating disorders issues and that is also something I hope to be able to help out with.

I learned a TON from my therapist at the Emily Program in Minnesota while overcoming anorexia. She had previously helped to develop the Victory Program at McCallum Place in St. Louis. Both treatment centers are phenomenal with addressing eating disorders and athletes. I am also appreciative that someone on here mentioned the Victory Program and that LetsRun put up a link to their site.

Eating disorders do appear to be more common in the US (I often perceive Americans to be either underweight or overweight). I also think that how female athletes look is much more uniform in the US, particularly at college level, than in Ireland or the UK, which could exacerbate the problem . By that I mean that most female runners appear to be the tall thin type; I'm not sure thighs like mine would have survived the US system.

(This may of course be just be the perception from the outside)

However, that said, eating disorders and disordered eating are also very common in British distance running, particularly among female,. I've seen new cases manifest and develop on an almost annual basis, and many more athletes start to slip down the slippery slope. A number of athletes (or former athletes) have spoken about their issues, and there are many other 'known' cases among 'successful' athletes.

Unfortunately eating disorders almost appear to be contagious. Anything that can be done to stop the epidemic can only be a good thing.

Two questions:

First, should the conversation be about body fat rather than weight? That's the more relevant measure, isn't it? People talk about losing weight, but typically what they want to do is lost fat while maintaining their muscle. Runners obviously don't want unnecessary bulk, but disordered eating is going to result in self-cannibalization of essential lean mass.

Second, the world of female gymnastics has for years dealt with "girls" and the challenges of limiting weighty hips and breasts. Can the running community learn from the gymnasts, and vice versa?

This is a blog I wrote because of the recent postings on LRC. Thanks guys for starting this dialogue. In my area, I see runners with issues on a yearly basis. It's super unhealthy and scary. I really have a problem with it because I am surrounded with old friends and ex teammates who also have these issues. Helping people with eating problems is very important to me. I will obviously not name names, but there are a couple of these athletes that are known on the national level and have been spoken about on these forums. Anyway, this is what I wrote. Sorry about the length, I just want to help the cause here and get my portion of the dialogue going:

I don't usually like to post about serious topics on here, but I just wanted to share something that I feel very strongly about. It's something that I don't think there's enough discussion about especially with men who don't typically have to deal with this problem around them. With a large portion of coaches being men, I think it's important to establish a dialogue that helps everyone to be aware of this issue and not just those who are dealing with it. We live in a society now where you're not allowed to talk about topics that others deem as sensitive and you're not allowed to mention words to people if they find it offensive. I guess what I'm getting at is that the sensitive topics need to be talked about because that's the only way to get people to understand them. Feel free to ignore this like any other form of click bait, but I think it's worth a read.

I'll never forget what it was like eating in the school cafeteria every day as a freshman in College. There were so many new people and kids to meet everywhere I looked. So many cliques and circles of students and athletes that bound together like tiny, miniature cults each day. With all of these people around, there was one girl in particular that really stood out to me. She was about 5'4 and about 90 pounds. I remember her distinctly because she used to stock her food tray to capacity every day for lunch and dinner. She was always reading glamour magazines and sitting by herself. She never smiled, she never looked around. She was hyper-focused on trying to eat as much as she possibly could. Little did I know, this was a mask for bigger problems.

The reason I want to mention her is because I used to make fun of her to my friends/teammates. I wasn't super aggressive or anything, I was just making comments here and there to the friends that I sat with. We all made fun of her. She became sort of a spectacle to us as we would see her every single day under the same circumstances. The worst part is I know that we weren't the only ones making comments. Everybody noticed, including that girl. I was only 17-18 years old at the time. I didn't fully understand what was happening and what she was going through. I don't think any of us did. As guys, I think it's easy to think, "Why doesn't she just eat more?" or, "It's all in her head." Well it doesn't work like that - not at all. It's difficult for people to grasp concepts that they'll never experience. I personally do not have issues myself, and I want to help, but I need to understand that I cannot understand. I think that's a good way to put it. I always want answers to everything and read voraciously about mental health issues with runners so you could imagine that this was very frustrating to me, but like I said, you just have to understand that you cannot ever fully understand what they're going through. I couldn't imagine what it was like to walk into the same place every single day knowing that you were going to be scrutinized and there was nothing you could do about it. Before I realized what was going on, she stopped showing up to the cafeteria. I never saw her again. I still think about her from time to time because I just want to know if she's okay or not. Maybe it's my guilt or maybe it's just me wanting to know everything, but I wish I had the knowledge and understanding at the time to at least attempt to lend a hand to someone else who was struggling. I can't imagine what it was like to feel so lonely and helpless at the same time. As far as I know, there was nobody there to step up and help her.

Anyway, the reason I'm writing this is because this is an issue I now encounter on a weekly basis, and if it's something I see once a week at a cross country meet, I can't imagine what it's like to deal with every single waking hour of every single day of your life. The sport of distance running is a unique sport where people stand around and watch athletes run circles around them. Spectators and coaches analyze and critique methods of racing and training as they watch these events take place. Coaches are constantly looking at body types and running form of young athletes. One thing that has stood out over the last few years to me as a coach at the high school level is the number of athletes (mostly all female) who tend to be on the skinny side. I know what you're thinking, "all runners are skinny," but it's different. There are symptoms and physical attributes that are visible to the eye and huge red flags. My point is that I think eating disorders are a very common thing in student-athletes as they are constantly dealing with stress and always seeking ways to improve themselves. Runners tend to look to other runners and try to figure out their secret to success. The biggest secret, however, is that most of these girls are trying to lose weight to an unhealthy extent just to reach some arbitrary running goal. It happens too often and it needs to be talked about.

Coaches need to be equipped with the ability to diagnose a potential problem and how to talk to their athletes about it in a way that addresses the gravity of the situation but also does not drive away that runner. The running community needs to talk about these issues and look out for each other. The very least you can do yourself is maybe educate yourself on the issue. Knowledge is power. I'm starting to see eating disorders come up more and more and the worst thing you can do to someone close to you about it is nothing. This problem is very serious and even a small, "is everything okay with you?" or alerting the coach of your concern can go a long way. I'm not going to go into too much of what I've read symptoms to be but I just wanted to post this for anyone who wants to read it. Educate yourself. Talk about issues like this and maybe you can help someone some day who needs it. Everyone thinks that someone else is going to do the speaking up for them, but if everyone thinks that way, then nobody will.

ee wrote:

Unfortunately eating disorders almost appear to be contagious. Anything that can be done to stop the epidemic can only be a good thing.

Problem created for solution - not such a good thing.

Bump. Don't want this thread to die just yet.