LRC Discussion: Finding the proper way to discuss eating disorders/women's weight issues on LetsRun.com

Wejo, no-one should mention an individual athlete's name or hint at the name of a specific athlete and any teammate who suspects one of her teammate's has an ED should report it to the coach, not post it on LR..

Then, according to the RRCA, the coach should

- Approach the athlete and gently talk about overall health concerns

- DO NOT discuss weight or eating habits

- Address broader concerns, fatigue, unhappiness, specific behaviors.

- Be supportive and listed attentively

- Provide a written list of resources

- Enlist appropriate professionals, nutritionist, school counselor etc

- Don't expect immediate results. Give it time

I find it humorous that in the front page Weekend XC Recap there's one picture in the women's section and the picture highlights only one person. Someone at Letsrun wants to talk about anorexics....

wejo wrote:

I think for sure allowing discussion of eating disorders helps people battling them.

"Discussion" can be the wrong kind that, as some posts mention, generate more shame, not less.

I fully support discussing the topic. It needs discussion in a constructive way. And that's a perennial moderation issue.

each situation unique wrote:

If I sense a health issue I strongly a nutritionist (or other professional as needed) be consulted and even assist in making an appointment if necessary.

I agree with what you are doing, but, FYI a nutritionist isn't necessarily the problem for some. Food can become an emotional issue that nutritionists aren't well suited to address.

My unsolicited opinion is IF the nutritionist makes a habit of referring out eating disorder issues that don't resolve quickly, I think everyone is better off.

Hopefully, that's how things work in your program. Again, I'm not disagreeing with your post, just adding my $0.0002.

As the parent of a college-level runner, I have appreciated the openness on this site and have sent snapshots of posts to my daughter to make sure she understands that she is right to stay clear of anorexia. Anorexia is currently a legal performance enhancer. Performance enhancing drugs are illegal because they can cause injury and death. We don't glorify those who take performance enhancing drugs and we shouldn't be glorifying anorexics. The NCAA is allowing anorexia to reign in distance running, but this site reminds people that it's not acceptable.

I am disgusted with Runner's World and Flotrack for writing rave reviews of Boise (and New Mexico) with no mention that the runners are unhealthy. They can consider themselves responsible for many more cases of anorexia when they tweet sickening photos/videos like that with no acknowledgement that the subjects are unhealthy and endangered. I was pleased to see the comments on Let's Run after the Griak, and disappointed to find they had been removed.

There has never been an important social change made without some discomfort. Your site could be an agent of change. I have no problem with keeping names and photos off the site, but don't silence the honest voices. And often those voices can't be honest with a signature at the bottom.

Distance runners are taught by college running that anorexia is a route to the top. This site is a place where they can see another perspective: being thinner may help you in the short term (and put money in your coach's pocket) but may ruin your future.

Anorexics are shooting stars, and other sites are glorifying them. Don't shut down the voice of reason.

Here is a toolkit for coaches with tips starting on page 30:

http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/coach-trainer

Has anyone in here contacted a coach before about their concerns regarding this subject? If so, did you get a reply and what was their response? Personally, I'd like a neutral, third-party to be the arbiter of addressing the diagnosis and potential treatment of any athlete, male or female, that might need some help with an ED. A coach needs training and excellent resources to address this issue.

About 5 years ago I reached out to a fellow coach regarding one his athletes that lost a large amount of weight and improved quickly during the same time period. He said she was getting help and that she was actually gaining weight. Throughout the season it was apparent that she continued to lose weight and the athletes on my team actually sent him an email with their concerns. He responded with a similar response that she was getting help and he appreciated their support for her health. I'd love to share the before and after pictures of her bodies transformation to show just how an ED can drastically change a young athletes body over such a short period of time. She like most others in that position started to struggle with injuries (during a stress fracture she admitted to walking 5 hours daily to burn calories) and stopped running competitively thank goodness upon graduation. From what I've seen the coaches who have an athlete struggling with weight issues don't really want to hear outside thoughts and opinions on the matter. They know more details about the athlete and even though the process may not be creating the results that outsiders want to see they are trying. If the athlete doesn't want to change their habits not much change will come with even the best support system. At that point I guess the coach needs to decide if they are willing to let the athlete continue to hurt themselves by competing and training at a very high level.

So in this case you are saying some of the comments about your wife being overweight might have contributed to her losing too much weight but overall you are for everything being discussed because you think scrutiny long term leads to the more people being healthy? Am i getting that right?

Regardless, you clearly see the complexity in this issue. And if you want a moniker under your login name identifying yourself, email me.

Someone's mom wrote:

As the parent of a college-level runner, I have appreciated the openness on this site and have sent snapshots of posts to my daughter to make sure she understands that she is right to stay clear of anorexia.

Can you tell us more what sort of stuff you send your daughter? If allowing discussion helps her, I'm curious exactly what sort of stuff you send her.

And I have heard from one of the Boise State coaches. I wrote him back asking if I could share his correspondence. At the very least his email, shows that public scrutiny can get people's attention and even if everything is on the up and up, having to pause and take a second look can't be a bad thing. But I'm not sure that would have happened if we initially deleted the thread that is now deleted.

This doesn't answer the question, but...

The Victory Program is a great resource for athletes with eating disorders:

https://www.mccallumplace.com/the-victory-program.html

McCallum Place has realized that the most effective treatment for an athlete with an eating disorder isn't the same as what you might do for a non-athlete. For athletes, their sport must be used as a primary reward for positive behavior (eating more, diversifying diet, gaining weight).

In many college situations, the athletes will be cleared to compete because health professionals are certain the athlete won't drop over dead during competition/training even though the athlete is not healthy. In some cases the athletes are allowed to run as long as they meet certain requirements such as meeting a baseline weight or seeing a counselor. Thus, the coach allows the athlete to run. However, this neutralizes the one thing (running) that can be a vital tool to helping the athlete recover. Of course, in some cases the athlete will just quit the team if he/she is not allowed to compete. Unfortunately, the eating disorder policies for athletes at most universities are grossly inadequate. Many coaches have to act in accordance with the policies in place.

I had an eating disorder that began in high school when I decided I wanted to be good at running. I received treatment, ran in college, and now coach collegiately. Looking back, the 2-3 years I struggled with an eating disorder were very dark and terrible. I recommend that every high school coach and college coach find a recovered athlete who doesn't mind answering questions about his or her own experience. It's hard for people who have never had an eating disorder to understand the complexity of the thought processes and behaviors involved.

This is a complex issue. What I don't get is why was this runner singled out? Maybe this is just the way they are. Malmo commented on that deleted thread that he was super skinny and ate everything in site.

Look at top past NCAA XC's and you see something striking in appearance and results. Maybe it is just normal runner healthy but at least one runner dropped massive weight and ran way faster. Did anyone email their coach? Doubt it. Should they have? Maybe not. Maybe they were not underweight. But in my opinion, they looked about the same as the runner singled out in that thread you mention here. Looking at old marathon photos of male marathoners and they've got the same arms too. You just can't infer who has an ED.

BTW, not talking about the top Boise runner from years past either because they always look very healthy and strong. I won't say what years because that would indirectly name the runner.

I have yet to read through the rest of this thread, and I will, but I'd like to respond to this original post as someone who has struggled with an eating disorder for at at least five of the past 7 years.

I am a successful collegiate runner, now a coach. And I am passionate about this subject. You have pulled at my heart strings, Let'sRun.

My first thought is that no one signs up for scrutiny. Man or woman, collegiate superstar or well renowned coach. People get to where they are because they work their asses off. Even pros. They may be in the spot light, but that does not mean their personal life is deserving of ignorant speculation and judgment. It is best to stay quiet about things you don't know.

My second thought is that another person's eating disorder is none of Let'sRun.com's business, and before you make a policy regarding the best way to approach eating disorders in the running world, first talk with experts.

Eating disorders do not happen because of something external. It's not the coach's fault or the family's. It is a mental illness, and is internally triggered and regulated. What that person is experiencing inside their own mind is horrifying and infuriating. There is the wiser, real mind pleading to eat more, do less, be happy and then simultaneously there is the controlling and compulsive mind that can not stop its destruction. A person can not simply eat more, they can not simply stop cutting calories, binging, purging and more importantly they can not simply stop loathing who and/or how they are. One does not choose to have a mental illness. If that was the case no one would have them, and I sure as hell would not have chosen the debilitating anxiety over food, the morphed body image, a hospital stay, years of therapy, a relapse, the ruin of relationships, to be trapped by my own mind. There is not a quick fix. That is where medical professionals, family based treatment and EMPATHY come in to play.

It is hard for those with a healthy mind to understand the minds that are ill, I get it. It is hard for my mind to imagine a peaceful train of thought surrounding food. My final thought for this forum is that if you're looking for a policy on how to discuss eating disorders, keep the personal lives of others off the web completely.

BUT keep the conversation going. Eating disorders ARE a life threatening issue, most prevalent in endurance and appearance/weight-based sports. Anorexia is the number one killer among all mental illnesses.

Start first with empathy and understanding. Start first by becoming fully informed about the nature of and treatment for eating disorders. Start first by advocating for legitimate education and awareness surround eating disorders for coaches and collegiate athletic departments locally and nationwide. And the general public. The National Eating Disorder Association (NEDA,

http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

) works diligently to raise awareness in all sorts of communities. Promote them, partner with them. Educate yourselves, middle-aged men, and consult with experts. Then make a policy.

Happy Running,

shemaesee

I'd like to see the site be about athletics, performance, uplifting discourse about life, and get rid of all the personal attacks and gutter type talk, including the incessant accusations about drugs and promotions of nefarious methods.

Stop promoting that type of hyperbole, and stop removing intelligent posts.

Currently LR is in the gutter, and the philosophy of the founders is the primary reason.

That runner was singled out because people are WORRIED for the health of that athlete. There is a huge difference between being a thin runner and being completed emaciated, and that athlete is the latter. No you can not look at someone and say "yeah, she/he is healthy". But you can look at someone and see that he/she is unhealthy. Females cannot be at as low body fat percentage as men, so posters need to stop making comparatives with males having skinning arms etc. Women need a higher body fat percentage to menstuate-- to be a healthy woman outside of the running world, to have normal bone density, to prevent osteoporosis, to maintain fertility etc etc etc.

Take a look at all of the professional FEMALE distance runners. Are any of them emaciated? NO. Are any of them rail thin? NO. There is NO longevity to losing weight to run faster, or restricting intake to maintain an unnaturally low body weight. Take a moment to think about all the rail thin NCAA female runners of the past. Where are they now? Certainly not running professionally.

And no I don't believe athletes should be singled out, but when an athlete is so obviously emaciated, people are going to talk. I'm shocked that a coach would allow an athlete to train/compete at an unhealthy BMI.

Preventing a girl from running, and forcing her to take medications that damage her health IS NOT CONCERN for her welfare - it's abuse.

Abuse - not concern wrote:

Preventing a girl from running, - to intervene before she runs herself to death (it's akin to suicide intervention)

and forcing her to take medications that damage her health - not sure why meds entered the conversation as I am not aware of any standard practice of medicating anorexics, unless it's to treat anxiety, which I highly doubt would be forced on the athlete.

IS NOT CONCERN for her welfare - it's abuse.

I find it interesting how the opinions of anorexics and recovering anorexics on this site differ. I was anorexic for about 2 years in high school - slight weight loss and improved appearance and body image morphed into an obsession with controlling what I put into my body and chasing the high I got from controlling the numbers on the scale - and consider myself fully recovered. I have zero anxiety over food, and though I remember my disordered thought processes and what it felt like, there is no way I could ever go back to that.

Contrary to what another recovered anorexic just posted, I do support the scrutiny (to some extent, without blatant personal attacks of the runners in question). Looking back, I was an idiot. Yes, I was suffering from a mental illness, but some part of the rational me gave into it. I should have fought it harder and sooner and then I would not look back with regret at the time I wasted. I was not a runner at the time, however, and once I realized I was pretty good at it, it became a recovery tool for me. The desire to not just run, but to run well and compete, helped me understand food as fuel and that I needed strong body to compete to my potential. I do think that access to sites and message boards like this would have helped me see just how badly I needed help and how stupid I was being for fighting it. Of course there will be athletes who are so blinded by their disorder that they really don't think anything is wrong...but I think many anorexics fall into a grey area of knowing, on some level, that they need help.

Nice post. It's hard to be objective when you're neck deep in it and myopic. It is then that we perhaps reluctantly have to turn to others to lift us up. Hopefully, the productive posts in this thread can do just that for those in need.

I agree with letting it be an open conversation about athletes and what seems to look like the ones that have a serious problem. As a former high school college and now post collegiate competitive athlete I myself struggled with ED. I came out lucky on the other end with really no big huge injuries (one stress fracture in 15 years) but I know countless others that have long lasting effects from theirs. You always see the footlocker winners/nationally ranked (AshBras, KateKalt, AmbTrott, CaitCho ....) being celebrated for their fast times but what you don't see is all the bullsh** that went on behind the scenes to get to the point they all were. Any problems they had were chalked it up to being naturally thin, genetics, food allergies etc.. but nobody would dare discuss it. It does create a toxic environment for nearby runners, it sucks getting your butt kicked by some rail thin chick and you think if I could look like that then I'll win so and so or run so and so time. There doesn't need to be vicious comments but I don't think we should delete every little thing that has been said about what seems to look like an unnaturally thin athlete.