LRC Discussion: Finding the proper way to discuss eating disorders/women's weight issues on LetsRun.com

Maybe you're just a misogynist with a brain that's biased against females.

And your viewpoint is so warped by male hormones and cultural bias that you are destined to live the rest of your life this way.

One of the threads about Boise State is still going and names named within.

I had Anorexia Nervosa as a teen. I'm male.

My daughter is in recovery from Anorexia Nervosa.

While my daughter was in treatment, I met quite a few adolescents with Anorexia and Bulimia, and their parents.

Some died.

They are called "Eating" disorders, not "weight" disorders. Unless you see a person's eating behaviors, you cannot diagnose them. A person may have an eating disorder without being especially thin (although the specific diagnosis of AN requires "a significantly low body weight"), or they may be especially thin without having an Eating Disorder.

What *is* universal among those with Eating Disorders are painful feelings of shame and inadequacy. Those with Eating Dangerous use dangerous eating behaviors as a way of dealing with their pain, because they've somehow discovered things don't hurt so much when they use the behaviors, at least for a little while.

That's the problem with these threads.

When people judge runner A's appearance harshly because of their weight, it's not runner A I worry about. Runner A is probably not going to see it. I worry about the High School junior who hates what she sees in the mirror each morning. Then she reads threads where people harshly criticize some runner's weight or shape, and next time she looks in the mirror, she hates herself a little more. I worry about the guy who hates himself because he's not thin enough to be good, and he sees people getting criticized for being too "fat". He looks in the mirror or steps on a scale, and he hates who he is even more.

Go ahead. Talk about runner X not running well. But don't go on and on calling them fat. Because that's never the root cause.

My thoughts:

- if an athlete is pushing the boundaries of what is considered healthy, it should be discussed. the problem lies on HOW it should be discussed. there's too much hate on this forum to allow for intelligent discussion -- just a general remark.

- if a coach is supporting or giving a free pass on that, it should be discussed even more. coaches, unfortunately, must also play the role of vigilantes at HS and college levels. athletes can be dumb. a coach cannot.

Sincere question for Weldon: Why is policing speculative posts on this topic more important than on others, such as doping?

I think a full public discussion of the issue is the only way to put pressure on college coaches to take responsibility for the health of their athletes. It is a difficult subject because a lot of runners will get very lean when they get into a college program compared to what they looked like in high school. Going from 40 mpw and one or two session in the gym to 60-80 mpw and daily gym training (weights, pilates, plyometrics, etc.) is going to have a significant effect on what a runner looks like. But we know what this looks like. The people who look like they have ED look different. They look gaunt and have poor muscle development. They are doing serious and often permanent damage to their health and may even be risking their lives. If a coach is letting them race and not caring about their health, the best thing that can happen is for the issue to come to light by any means available.

College runners are not children. Colleges dedicate serious resources to athletes in scholarship, coaches and the expenses incurred in going to competitions. The athletes have their pictures up on the school's website with a bio of their accomplishments. The athletes have put themselves in the public eye and need to be able to deal with the scrutiny that comes with participating in Div. I sports.

Of course, the discussion should be civil. But to just censor it out and ignore it is just a prescription for disaster.

smd wrote:

Sincere question for Weldon: Why is policing speculative posts on this topic more important than on others, such as doping?

See my post above. Ever been to a funeral for an 18 year old girl whose Eating Disorder killed her? Ever sit with a girl who is so terrified of eating in front of others, or eating a particular food that they break down in tears? Ever see a teenager in a hospital ward with an NG tube because they haven't been able to bring themselves to eat in weeks?

PED usage is a conscious choice. Someone chooses to break the rules. Eating disorders are mental illnesses. Nobody chooses to develop and eating disorder. They may discover their psychophysical response to restriction or purging as a result of a conscious choice to begin a diet, but when it becomes an Eating Disorder, they have lost all control over it.

BellisColdwine wrote:

Go ahead. Talk about runner X not running well. But don't go on and on calling them fat. Because that's never the root cause.

Thoughtful post. One question. If people are pointed out for being "too thin" would that actually help someone struggling with anorexia? If they can see others don't want people to be this thin could it help them?

I don't think athletes need to be named.

I think for sure allowing discussion of eating disorders helps people battling them.

That's not my point.

There will be posts about eating disorders based solely on speculation, just like there will be posts about PEDs based solely on speculation. Why do the former merit more concern for the potential effect on the person being speculated about than the latter?

I'll share my story for the sake of discussion. I was mid 20s and training for a marathon. I lost a few pounds just from the increased mileage and saw a real boost in my race times. I figured if a few lost pounds is good then more must be great. I basically started starving myself to get lighter. My times improved some more and I got lots of compliments from running friends for both my times and how "fit" I looked.

That fueled the fire. Of course you can only starve yourself for so long, so I started having occasional binge sessions. I'd feel SO guilty that I'd try to compensate by running more and eating even less. Then I discovered that I could just make myself puke to "undo" my last binge.

That's when it really spiraled out of control. I basically planned my life around running, binging, and puking. I'd get a kind of endorphin high off it. I started having health and dental problems as a result, but I didn't DARE confess to anyone.

The shame was overwhelming.

Eventually I sought professional counseling out of sheer desperation. It helped a lot, along with my faith in God, and I've been "sober" from bulimia for almost three years now. I constantly have to stay on guard against the old feelings and temptations, but day by day I'm beating it.

smd wrote:

Sincere question for Weldon: Why is policing speculative posts on this topic more important than on others, such as doping?

I have said from the get go that I believe allowing speculation on doping leads to a cleaner sport.

All athletes are under suspicion for doping. It is why I had to pee into a cup while another man watched me. And it is because of this suspicion that I don't think there is much harm to a clean athlete if others speculate if they are doping. They are already under suspicion.

I believe the speculation calls for clean athletes to push for even more stringent doping controls. It ensures there aren't cover-ups. We used to get the nastiest emails about allowing threads to go about Lance Armstrong. In that case they were proven correct.

wejo wrote:

Thoughtful post. One question. If people are pointed out for being "too thin" would that actually help someone struggling with anorexia? If they can see others don't want people to be this thin could it help them?

No, that won't help. Someone with AN is almost certainly told (and anyone in treatment is certainly told) she is too thin yet she persists in her behaviors. It may be she doesn't believe it (she thinks they're lying to deceive her), or it may be that the addictive nature of her restrictive behavior is too strong a siren call, and being "too thin" may be another thing she is ashamed of. When I was sick, I knew I was too thin. My body was failing so badly I could barely walk up stairs and I hated that about myself, and I kept running and I kept restricting.

When I explain AN to people, I say it's not about "not wanting to eat". It's about "wanting to not eat", because "not eating" does something for us. My daughter has admitted the same to me.

thigh gap wrote:

Thigh gap is mandatory. If a chick doesn't have thigh gap, then she is too fat. Plain and simple. No muffin-tops allowed. Plain and simple.

A chick can pork out and have no thigh gap and a muffin top, but she will look terrible and will run slow. It is up to her if she chooses the feed trough over good looks and fast times.

That probably sounded funny in your own head and maybe non-idiotic.

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

thigh gap wrote:

Thigh gap is mandatory. If a chick doesn't have thigh gap, then she is too fat. Plain and simple. No muffin-tops allowed. Plain and simple.

A chick can pork out and have no thigh gap and a muffin top, but she will look terrible and will run slow. It is up to her if she chooses the feed trough over good looks and fast times.

That probably sounded funny in your own head and maybe non-idiotic.

...And exactly why we are having this discussion in the first place. Unfortunately, too many users do not know (and sadly, don't care) the right time and place to act like imbeciles and when to contribute to a thoughtful discussion. In perusing the threads at any given point in time, there are many more opportunities to be a moron than not. Until there is either registration across the board with strict policing of the morons, suspending or banning them if necessary, these types of thread will be problematic, even though there can be some fruitful and thought-provoking discussion.

d.gracey wrote:

My stance: It needs to be talked about openly and with names and pictures. .

I agree. Posters should be required to post their real names (verified) and pictures of themselves.

would Ormsby have jumped off the bridge if letsrun posters had been posting anonymously about her? You think no?

seems to me there will be more girls jumping off bridges if anonymous trolls talk about their bodies - that's all they need. Pressure coaches sure, but don't gossip on the internet.

I'm having trouble getting my head around the pros and cons of naming names. It's clear that eating disorders are a terribly dangerous thing but where do these message boards fit into the picture? Would any of the posters who have had issues mind speaking to the role of public perception in this disorder?

d.gracey wrote:

My stance: It needs to be talked about openly and with names and pictures. Do you know why the Ray Rice thing blew up after the video was released? Because you can't ignore it doesn't exist and images are real. Once the images are out there and you see them in person it's sad and something needs to be done. The threads are about the athlete and it's hurtful to see negative comments, but reality needs to be dealt with. Her friends, family, and coaches need people to disagree with them because their eyes are blurred with her being close to them.

You go first. Who are you? What professional qualifications do you have? Lets see a picture of yourself so we can talk about you -- for the good of the sport.

In the early 90's I had a GA position with a mid-level D1 program and there I first witnessed the impact of eating disorders on athletes- especially females. We had one of our top performers spend time in the hospital because of her actions to achieve a perceived body image. Already one of the shortest and smallest girls on campus she lost a couple of seasons of competition and maybe never reached her true potential. I trust life has turned out well for her.

I have struggled with "finding the proper way to discuss eating disorders" with female runners since that episode. As others have said, eating disorders are a symptom of a bigger problem that must be treated. As a young coach I decided not to discuss eating habits at all only to quickly realize that was just ignoring a problem that would not end well. I have since shifted my procedure to not discuss weight (with male or female athletes) as a performance factor but to discuss diet as a health issue. If I sense a health issue I strongly a nutritionist (or other professional as needed) be consulted and even assist in making an appointment if necessary.

So because I have struggled for years with this very question I will offer no parameters or guidelines for the discussion of such matters on this website. I would say that each post should be respectful- and respect seems to be dwindling in some areas.