8 to 10 weeks to get in 14:40 shape. (LOG)

If you think you have talent, you're right. If you think you don't have talent, you're right.

For whatever it's worth, I think I have talent. I won't say "oh, I really only started running legitimately two years ago so my high school counterparts are faster", but I think it would've certainly had helped if I wasn't a chunky monkey for 2 of my 4 years as a runner. I started running those "fast" times almost instantaneously, it seems. One season I was an 18:30 XC 5k guy, the next season my fitness just kind of came out of nowhere and I popped out a 10:07 3200. A little splash of talent or just good training? Who knows.

Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:

If you think you have talent, you're right. If you think you don't have talent, you're right.

Will this be an Indoor 5k or Road Race in 8-10 weeks time? Or a time trial w. the coach?

Curious because a 14:40 on the roads usually takes a higher fitness level than 14:40 on the track. And depending on your experience racing Indoors a 14:40 there might be harder mentally than doing so on an Outdoor track.

Just a few thoughts:

1. To be able to run 14:40 I believe you will need to be able to complete the following workouts:

-- 7-8 x 800 meters at 2:14-2:16 w. 2:00-2:20 rec.

-- 4-5 x 1600 meters at 4:40ish w. 3 min rec.

-- 4 miles in 20:00-20:50ish

I think once you can do those workouts you are close...but then again EVERYTHING has to be right.

You have to remember...a 14:40 5000 meter is equivalent to a 4:13 (mile) and 8:21 (3000m).

Good luck in your pursuit of greatness!

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer by any means but I feel your goals may be a little lofty. If I was you I would continue to build mileage. I would find a breaking point (Where you can no longer recover, stay healthy, stay awake for 6 hours straight) and work backwards. I would say that the best thing you can do to build that true base is to get some good mileage under your feet and knock out some longer workouts. Doing long tempo's, mile repeats, two mile repeats, 2k/3k repeats, and longer fartlecks. I would make your long runs a true workout when strong enough and start incorporate tempo's inside the long run and make them a harder effort. To help with mechanics incorporate strides and drills. I would also suggest core, weight, and nutrition to help prevent your body from breaking down and make sure you are getting plenty of sleep and recovery. Keep us posted and I wish you the best.

I agree with you. I wanted to point out the equivalent times and workouts needed to be hit in order to run 14:40 or close to it.

The best route would be to take the long term approach - build mileage, work from general to specific, get into a good rhythm and routine in training.

If this college has a hard line set on 14:40 then I would suggest, if running in college is something you really want to pursue, that you look for another school with similar academics but maybe not so hard of a line to hit in the 5k.

I don't think there is anything wrong with going for a 14:40 in the 5k; I just think going from 10:00 in the 3200 meters to 14:40 in the 5000 meters is going to be very tough in 8-10 weeks time...

Typical runner or sockpuppet wrote:

If you think you have talent, you're right. If you think you don't have talent, you're right.

I respect that you're trying to provide motivation, but no "thinking" in the world can take a runner in the OP's circumstances to 14:40 in 8-10 weeks.

Honestly, it's great that the responses have been positive, but take their advice and focus on long term. Your premise is, 100%--and I'd bet a million dollars against anyone in the situation with any set of resources--impossible.

I think your college team coach perhaps does not want you in the team. They know what they have asked of you is impossible.

If you ran your theoretical 1 mile best for 3.1 miles you'd run 14:30.

Do yourself a favour and just enjoy your running. By all means increase your training load and set goals, but 14:40 is way out there. Setting a target of sub 15:30 would be a smarter target, and positively contribute to your running progress.

If you ran 15:20 that would be a really impressive improvement, yet you would feel disappointed that you had fallen short of your 14:40.

It sounds like you have never run 70 mpw before. If you haven't, stay in the 70-75 mpw range over the winter. While that may cut your chances of running 14:40 in 8-10 weeks from 1 in 20 to 1 in 40, it will also drop your chances of injury from 1 in 2 to 1 in 5 to pull numbers from my &(%*.

By all means go for 90+ mpw building through March to that level in April, but really your best chances for making the team are August or December of 2016.

The coach/es at this school do not want you on the team, or at least don't care to have you there (hopefully the later). You will not hit 14:40 even if you undertake Quenton Cassidy type training and do nothing but train, sleep, and live in a cabin in the woods. Actually thats the only way you'd have a shot in hell of getting close to those times, assuming you didn't get injured, but I assume you have other things going on in life.

You have 2 options:

1. Immediately start looking for a college with not quite as strong a running program, or without such a stringent line for a walk on

2. Do your best to improve. Show the coach your drop in prs at the 5k distance. Get a strong recommendation from your hs coach. Hopefully your hs coach has coached runners who've gone on to run well their freshman and soph years at colleges and he'll be able to say he thinks you have potential to keep improving to the point where you could be a scorer. If you're lucky this will be enough to let you have a try out, or to walk on.

I recommend option 1.

Good luck.

Hey all,

Just to clarify and respond to some of your comments (thanks for all of them, by the way). I have been at 70mpw before, but that wasn't since Fall of 2014. I'll definitely see if I can work in a bunch of your suggested plans (besides the ones suggesting that I don't chase after this goal).

I'm going to pursue this no matter what, even though 90% of you believe it ill of me to do so. This decision wasn't immediate and required some time to think about before I gave myself an answer. After a few runs and 24 hours time, I decided that this was just something that I needed to do--no matter the outcome--or I might regret it for the rest of my life.

I have no idea what will happen to my body once I put myself through this level of training, but I certainly know what will happen if I don't.

Cheers.

What will happen is you will get injured chasing times you can't possibly run and spend the next few months just watching the xc season.

But good luck anyway

You've got the right attitude to make this happen. I've known guys that showed up to make our squad back in school with similar credentials out of HS, not made it 1st year, not made it 2nd year, and then finally made it 3rd. I can't think of someone with similar HS PBs that made it (at least in the time shortly before my time on the team through my time there and to now (where I just follow the squad as a semi- (running) retired desk jockey in the working world). You've got a good chance if you work at it.

So that's what you've got going for you. The guys that stuck around and kept digging after it almost all made the squad. Now, for what you don't have going for you:

Our coach used to sell the 14:40-50 try out standard for track as in incoming guy, and 14:30 for transfers to get a roster spot, too. THIS IS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT GUYS JOINING THE TEAM. Literally, this comes via direct statement from him regarding the matter. You recruit certain guys based on their PBs and placings, but you ALSO recruit them because you speak with them and see that their personality will fit into an overall team culture and affect in beneficially. This isn't to say you wouldn't, but I'm just letting you know that this is likely the reason for the 14:40 standard. If you hit it as a tryout freshman, then awesome, the coach just got a very gifted freshman for free and with zero work. If you don't, then he doesn't have to deal with creating training plans for some jackass he doesn't know and didn't lay the foundation for.

I'm not disparaging you, I'm just being completely honest. I'm rooting for you, but I want you to know what you're up against. Based on that, I'm also going to offer up a little bit of unsolicited info that I think you should know: Odds are, based off of how things functioned on my team back then, you're not going to be respected on the team; you're not going to have many friends there; you're not going to be on the invite list for things. Out of the 4 guys that made the team, I only remember one assimilating into it, and it took him a year and a half. THAT'S INSANE! These poor f*ckers were literally the butt of jokes, ignored, and forced to lead workouts until they blew up in order to save the top 10 guys from having to lead. That's a horrible life and I would not have put up with it. Just know that this is the attitude at a lot of Power 5 schools with good teams, and is likely what you'll face.

Alright, all that being said, and my rants having touched on more than I was ever anticipating to speak about, I'm done. My final advice: Grab your dick and go for it, but don't glorify it as a beautiful step into some ivory kingdom. The REAL work, the REAL shit, the REAL pain, of proving yourself as a viable athlete with value to the team (both athletically and socially) starts once you you have a roster slot. Running the required time just gives you a chance to do that, nothing more.

Full Disclosure wrote:

Alright, all that being said, and my rants having touched on more than I was ever anticipating to speak about, I'm done. My final advice: Grab your dick and go for it, but don't glorify it as a beautiful step into some ivory kingdom. The REAL work, the REAL shit, the REAL pain, of proving yourself as a viable athlete with value to the team (both athletically and socially) starts once you you have a roster slot. Running the required time just gives you a chance to do that, nothing more.

I really appreciated this post. I'm not sure if it makes any difference that I physically sat down with the coach and chatted for a good half an hour about why he wanted to give me the opportunity to run for his team (and vice versa), personal bests, training, and so on. I also, thankfully, bumped into the team before that meeting and they all just seemed so down to earth and generally great guys.

Jeez what college is this.. 14:40 walk on? Anyone sub 15 in high school should definitely be on scholarship unless you're going to Colorado or something.

Good, all I wanted to do is walk you through the worst case should you push through and make it happen (you can).

Good luck, and I really hope to see an update come across the boards regarding the result this year.

Full Disclosure wrote:

Good, all I wanted to do is walk you through the worst case should you push through and make it happen (you can).

Good luck, and I really hope to see an update come across the boards regarding the result this year.

I'll definitely post weekly or bi-weekly with training updates. Thanks for your amazing words of encouragement!

Hey man, I think this is doable, but 8-10 weeks would be tough. I had similar times in HS to you - 4:40, 10:15, 16:15 - and ended up running 14:35 my junior year of college. I think my best as a freshman was mid-15s.

That being said, you have the right attitude. I think if you really really want it, you'll need to incorporate some strengthening (core and legs), stretching/yoga, and keeping to a strict diet. Good luck!

Just wanting to clear some things up, and I'll give my thoughts as well:

Are you already enrolled in the college you want to run for?

Did the coach say you have to run 14:40 by the beginning of November to run this upcoming track season?

Or did the coach say you need to run 14:40 to walk on, and November is just the deadline for this season (so you could theoretically run 14:40 in a couple years, and run on the team the following season)?

As pretty much everyone has told you, the odds are HEAVILY stacked against you running 14:40ish any time in the next 8-10 weeks.

That being said, though, the odds are not necessarily stacked against you if you gave yourself a year or two.

I would say that 90 miles per week will not be enough to make it down to 14:40 in 8-10 weeks. If things go well, I could see you ending up at 15:20-30 if you manage to stay healthy.

The only way I see a possibility of running 14:40 in the timetable you are aiming for is to run even more - probably 120 miles per week. However, this is almost certainly a bad idea. Think of the miles as a crucible of sorts: they will refine you and make you faster, but they will also break you down. Any sort of muscle imbalance or weakness will be magnified - resulting in stress fractures, debilitating tightness, tendonitis from overworked areas, etc. Since you already know you are dealing with weak areas that act up on long runs, it is highly unlikely you will be able to stand up to the rigors of sustained HIGH mileage (this is not to say you can't bump your mileage wisely, but just know your weaknesses).

Mainly, focus on what you can do:

Strides - 4:40 mile speed is not going to cut it, and strides can help you get comfortable at a faster pace (you will probably need 4:20 mile speed at least)

Hills - speed work in disguise, and they will make you strong. Also, I have found that too much running on flat ground seems to magnify my muscle imbalances.

Doubles - not sure if you mentioned if you are doing them, but if not, the time to start is NOW. Get up to 6 doubles per week ASAP; if you need to limit some of the second runs to just a couple miles, that is fine to start out with. The important thing is getting into the routine of running twice per day.

Cross training - you can swim and/or bike some, but I would say not too much. If you are pushing the running a lot, you don't want to stress your system too much (and if you are not used to swimming or biking, you might work some muscle groups more than they are used to).

All those things are important, but the most important is DON'T GIVE UP! Don't give up if/when you don't make it to your 14:40 goal in 8 weeks, and don't give up if you hurt yourself in the process. Learn the lessons from your mistakes, and learn that patience is a necessary virtue. Learn to keep chasing your goals even after you fail your first time ... it is tough to be smart when you are 18/19 years old, and sometimes you can only learn through failure. At the same time, you can only succeed through persistence.

Your former team sounds like a blast...

I ran for a good D3 team back in the day. Our coach had a rule that anyone was technically allowed to try out, but after a week or 2 he would pull them aside and have a reality check conversation with them. Basically tell the walk-on(s) that they weren't good enough, and their time/energy would be better spent doing something else.

In my time there, 2 kids made it through. One ran high 17's in high school, and he just kept grinding day after day at practice. He had to run all out a lot of days to avoid getting dropped on runs, or falling too far off the back in workouts. After 3 years he was no longer the slowest guy on the team and broke 16 in the 5k.

The other kid was a 19:15 (!!!!!!!) kid in high school who stuck with it. Coach made him train with the girls for the first 2 months. He ended up running 15:45 his senior year. Both kids assimilated into the team culture, and we respected the hell out of them for making it.

OP: If I were you I'd look up the 5k pr's of the runners who are on the team now, and the pr's of the other freshman runners. Even though the walk-on standard is 14:40, I think if you ran mid to low 15's you might have a shot.