https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20810522/ryen-frazier-finishes-high-school-with-four-national-titles/
great HS accomplishments but yeah you don't want to peak at 18 in any sport...
great HS accomplishments but yeah you don't want to peak at 18 in any sport...
Run a traditional schedule.
Juice Springsteen wrote:
So what is your idea to prevent burnout amongst the best and brightest distance stars hm?
1st Step: acknowledge that happens
2. Dig into the science behind how especially for girls training at a high level before and during body changes leaves little if any room to improve and most likely lowers the long term ceiling. There is some studies and evidence of this already on top of tons of anecdotal evidence. Let’s firm this up so people really understand it.
3. Educate! Educate! Educate! Coaches, parents, etc...
Anyone who knows about the Fraziers knows this isn't a story of training intensity or philosophy. It's a story of a controlling father focused on his daughters' track times to the detriment of their growth and upbringing. Simple as that. My heart goes out to them and I hope they are doing well.
raleighfolk wrote:
Anyone who knows about the Fraziers knows this isn't a story of training intensity or philosophy. It's a story of a controlling father focused on his daughters' track times to the detriment of their growth and upbringing. Simple as that. My heart goes out to them and I hope they are doing well.
I blame the college coach FAR more than I blame the father. Ryen was in great shape in the fall of her freshman year. After 5 years with the NC State coaches, she can't break 19. Sorry but that's not daddy's fault. It's Henes' fault.
I will say it’s likely fault of both.
But how can it be controlling dad but not be an issue of training intensity. One is the cause of too much of the other.
Correct. Over trained and over raced in high school. Ping sisters have similar stories.
How is he still competing in XC in her 6th year?
Indoor? wrote:
Jake Scrum wrote:
She’s won multiple HS national championships, 2nd at FL, represented her country at XC in Ireland, won three ACC team championships, all ACC every year before the injuries. All before the age of 22. She’s had a successful running career, and now she will have a successful work career and life.
Yes, I've fully acknowledged that and it's all great. But you don't normally want your college running career to end MUCH worse than it began. It's common sense. If almost every blue chip basketball recruit came in and was on fire as a freshman and then couldn't get on the court as a Senior do you think people might look into why that is and address it?
Baseball and Softball have tons of rules in place to avoid overuse and burn out. Other sports address these issues because they can acknowledge them. When I can't even convince you idiots an issue it's just bound to repeat itself.
Could it be that some simply reach their physical peak for their sport at 17 or 18?
My daughter is a pole vaulter and despite the coach adding weight training in college, she only improved a very small amount before regressing.
I followed several of the top vaulters from our state, who all went to different colleges, and the pattern was mostly similar.
Over-training in High School was certainly not an issue.
How is she able to compete in her 6th year?
Medical hardship. NCAA granted a sixth year
Fun. So she will get a season this fall that does not count and she will get another season this winter that doe not count and then she will get her medical year next year in her 7th year.
sooner more like later wrote:
raleighfolk wrote:
Anyone who knows about the Fraziers knows this isn't a story of training intensity or philosophy. It's a story of a controlling father focused on his daughters' track times to the detriment of their growth and upbringing. Simple as that. My heart goes out to them and I hope they are doing well.
I blame the college coach FAR more than I blame the father. Ryen was in great shape in the fall of her freshman year. After 5 years with the NC State coaches, she can't break 19. Sorry but that's not daddy's fault. It's Henes' fault.
You're forgetting that Daddy Frazier made a deal with Coach Henes that Ryen would only run for NCSU if he got to continue coaching her. I'm not sure how long that lasted, but he was some sort of unofficial volunteer assistant coach for awhile.
Volunteer Overassistant wrote:
sooner more like later wrote:
I blame the college coach FAR more than I blame the father. Ryen was in great shape in the fall of her freshman year. After 5 years with the NC State coaches, she can't break 19. Sorry but that's not daddy's fault. It's Henes' fault.
You're forgetting that Daddy Frazier made a deal with Coach Henes that Ryen would only run for NCSU if he got to continue coaching her. I'm not sure how long that lasted, but he was some sort of unofficial volunteer assistant coach for awhile.
Right. Also that Henes has seem to do okay producing good NC State teams. So its working fot the majority of people. Can't blame coaching there.
More top runners got worse than what got better.
letsrun knowitalls wrote:
Indoor? wrote:
Yes, I've fully acknowledged that and it's all great. But you don't normally want your college running career to end MUCH worse than it began. It's common sense. If almost every blue chip basketball recruit came in and was on fire as a freshman and then couldn't get on the court as a Senior do you think people might look into why that is and address it?
Baseball and Softball have tons of rules in place to avoid overuse and burn out. Other sports address these issues because they can acknowledge them. When I can't even convince you idiots an issue it's just bound to repeat itself.
Could it be that some simply reach their physical peak for their sport at 17 or 18?
My daughter is a pole vaulter and despite the coach adding weight training in college, she only improved a very small amount before regressing.
I followed several of the top vaulters from our state, who all went to different colleges, and the pattern was mostly similar.
Over-training in High School was certainly not an issue.
Truth. The evidence is just staring us in the face.
Badder than bad wrote:
More top runners got worse than what got better.
Only a handful of women at NC State get better while MOST get worse.
sooner more like later wrote:
Badder than bad wrote:
More top runners got worse than what got better.
Only a handful of women at NC State get better while MOST get worse.
Lets be honest- is this an NC State thing or a women runner thing.
It is probably both. Everything I have heard is NC State runs HARD on easy days.
sooner more like later wrote:
raleighfolk wrote:
Anyone who knows about the Fraziers knows this isn't a story of training intensity or philosophy. It's a story of a controlling father focused on his daughters' track times to the detriment of their growth and upbringing. Simple as that. My heart goes out to them and I hope they are doing well.
I blame the college coach FAR more than I blame the father. Ryen was in great shape in the fall of her freshman year. After 5 years with the NC State coaches, she can't break 19. Sorry but that's not daddy's fault. It's Henes' fault.
You sound like a NCSU hater; Your knowledge of the criminal behavior of the father is severely lacking; also Henes is a great coach with a positive proven record.
An old thread with more insights into the father's role: