Taoufik Makhloufi workout video 2 weeks before 2:13.09 at 1000m

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  • ventolin^3
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    5 years ago 09/22/2015 8:21pm CDT
    re: ventolin^3
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    ventolin^3 wrote:

    nonsense

    no evidence of running start

    at 8' in you can see small red cone at start & maloofi's L foot in shot in lane 2

    maloofi already run 3.526m extra !!!

    maloofi started from rest at 800

    correction

    maloofi started in lane 2 from standing start & quickly moved into lane 1

    likely 10 - 20cm extra distance

    however, some outside shots later on from bike, so his drafting is little

    this reminds me of ludlow who ran 1'57+tt before peking but failed badly in prelims

    she looked awesomely strong that workout, probably unrested, so likely a 1'56 talent if fully rested

    she didn't crack 2'00 in peking & failed badly when she had as much, much more talent than bishop

    maloofi, even with 1500 big gold is poor in 800s, not taking any control from gun & losing race from start

    you can't start with 25++s & expect to win fast races even moreso when running 2m+ on 1st bend & maybe another 5m on last 2

    the guys ahead are too damn quick & never come back enough...
  • ventolin^3
    registered
    5 years ago 09/22/2015 8:41pm CDT
    re: newname
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    newname wrote:Why not enter his 1500m and 1000m bests for distances/times that he has actually run?

    because his '15 pbs are nonsense

    he was capable of 2'11-mid in his 1k effort if fast pace to 600

    his 1500 is now nonsense as he really doesn't look same endurance monsta of '12

    he's running 3'28-high when was in 3'26+ shape in games

    Wouldn't that be a better indicator than fabricating TWO times that he HAS NOT run and guessing his 800m potential?

    because you need a clue about about shape

    you clearly don't

    in '12 stockholm after games letdown, he ran ~ 6.5m extra on bends in 1'43.7 off pathetic jog of 25.4s, when 24-low was expected

    he was in 1'42-flat shape if fast gun-tape route-1

    Wouldn't his potential at 800m and 1000m be demonstrated best by the 1000m race he actually did and pushed all-out in?

    see above for 800

    as for 1k :

    you don't run best 1k for elite off rubbish 1'46+

    it has to be 1'44+ to attack 2'12-flat

    he had crap pacing in that 1k
  • Half Mile Standard
    5 years ago 09/22/2015 8:54pm CDT
    re: ventolin^3
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    Believing that the best preperation for an 800m race is "four or five days with light jogging" is beyond clueless. It's absolute ignorance of 800m preperation.

    Watch the film Fox Catcher.
  • ventolin^3
    registered
    5 years ago 09/22/2015 9:13pm CDT
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    J.R. wrote:Hahahaha!!!!

    Nice, I like it

    move on

    as coach of a 1'44+ guy, you are strangely reticent about commenting on other guys' potential

    for once, don't fear about upsetting your boy :

    maloofi runs solo 1'44.4 & within minutes runs 1'04.75 solo = 1'43.6 pace !!!

    then fast coupla other shorter at 400 & 300 at nearly same pace !!!

    impress as "1st post" :

    what do you reckon he couda run for a 1-off perfectly paced-to-bell in tight lane 1, 800 that day, unknowing how much rest for it ???

    nail your balls to the wall for once !!!

    i'm even supporting as you as i am rooting oz to win world cup as always for last ~ 40y if america is out & i am certainly no springbok or black-shirt

    go oz !!!

    you have best rugby talent in world but in wrong sports

    why have you taken so damn long to contend again ???
  • ventolin^3
    registered
    5 years ago 09/22/2015 9:47pm CDT
    re: Half Mile Standard
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    Half Mile Standard wrote:Believing that the best preperation for an 800m race is "four or five days with light jogging" is beyond clueless. It's absolute ignorance of 800m preperation

    eh ??

    since when before Ryun has a 800WR been set of less than few days rest ???

    Kipkurgat himself said in his epic solo '74 gold that the rounds cost him WR, let alone huge wind & no drafting

    Wilson said 3 days was "too close" to recover to recover from WR effort when running 52.0/50.7 in monaco '97

    you can't run anywhere close to best possible 800 without 3 days of rest

    Watch the film Fox Catcher

    eh ???

    where has a wrestling film have elite 800 guys ??
  • jjjjjj
    5 years ago 09/22/2015 9:53pm CDT
    re: McLoafer
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    good catch: I meant 2006.
  • Woodstock
    registered
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 1:14am CDT
    re: ventolin^3
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    How do you consider Mahk daddy's 2012 form to be so much better than now? At London and Beijing he ran similar times with a faster last 300m in Beijing by close to a second. So if he was in 3:26 shape in 2012 then Kiprop must have at least hit 3:23-24 shape this year.
  • Reality Check 1 2
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 3:55am CDT
    re: Woodstock
    Forum Index

    Watching a bunch of races on TV does not make you an expert.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

    Racing the event at an elite level and coaching an athlete to world class makes you an expert.

    Several people have mentioned, including a real expert, that an 800m time trial with a running start, paced by a guy on a bike, with no other runners to negotiate can result in quicker than race times. Are you incapable of actually listening and learning from real experts?
  • mostly dead
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 5:26am CDT
    re: ventolin^3
    Forum Index

    [quote]ventolin^3 wrote:

    since when before Ryun has a 800WR been set of less than few days rest ???

    {quote]

    800 m times tend to be faster in a crowded schedule.. Deal with it.
  • JRinaldi
    registered
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 4:17pm CDT
    re: ventolin^3
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    Interesting to see my comments were deleted, when I'm responding to Vent having a dig at me. Malmö does a good job of protecting Vent on these threads. Lucky I made a copy

    Hey moron, I'm JRinaldi not J.R.

    I regards to the workout, the 800m wasn't really that impressive (other than the time to us who can't run 1:44).

    I've done a workout where I ran a solo (no pacing or anyone else running behind me) in 1:48.1 8min rec then ran 10x200m with 60sec recover and averaged 25.4 with the last rep in 23.2. Considering my pb was only 1:47.60, you'd think that the 800 I ran would indicate that I was capable of a lot quicker, but my results show that I wasn't. So a 1:43 guy running 1:44.6 behind a bike seems more than reasonable to me.

    I saw Johnny Gray ran a solo 1:25.3 for 700m...that was pretty impressive.
  • Flo'da boy
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 4:20pm CDT
    re: JRinaldi
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    This thread just lost 22 posts (I'm grateful but surprised JRinaldi's is still here)
  • Grateful?
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 4:27pm CDT
    re: Flo'da boy
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    Flo'da boy wrote:

    This thread just lost 22 posts (I'm grateful but surprised JRinaldi's is still here)

    There's nothing to be grateful about.

    Intelligent posts are removed, and the ranting idiot V>3 is still here.
  • rise of the mostly dead
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 4:31pm CDT
    re: ventolin^3
    Forum Index

    [quote]ventolin^3 wrote:


    you can't run anywhere close to best possible 800 without 3 days o of rest [quote]

    Except for Cruz and Rudisha, among others.
  • Math data in. Conclusion Out.
    5 years ago 09/23/2015 6:08pm CDT
    re: rise of the mostly dead
    Forum Index

    The lifetime bests of 90 percent of the world's 1.41 and 1.42 800m performers achieved their PR after rounds or an extensive racing schedule in the days leading to their PR. Analyze the data, draw conclusions.
  • ventolin^3
    registered
    5 years ago 09/25/2015 2:41pm CDT
    re: Reality Check 1 2
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    Reality Check 1 2 wrote:Watching a bunch of races on TV does not make you an expert

    it depends on "bunch"

    we are not talking a few races over last decade, but majority of euro races over last 40+y

    i can name on fingers of both hands the races in last 40+y i woud like to have seen on satellite & haven't, in chronological order :

    - caballo 1'43.44wr in '77

    - all of rono's wrs in '78

    - maree whupping ovett in 3'48.8 in rieti '81

    - aouita 3'34.8 with 36+ finish in '84

    apart from those & coupla others, i've seen all the races i coud have wished for in past 40+y

    that "experience" develops some expertise over kids in their 30s or 40s

    Racing the event at an elite level and coaching an athlete to world class makes you an expert

    no it doesn't

    the former means you are an elite athlete, nothing more

    the latter makes you a good coach, nothing more

    neither makes you an "expert"

    sal is "best coach in the world" & he said to mo that he coud go 3'30 in monaco '13"

    he was long way out...

    Several people have mentioned, including a real expert

    who ??

    that an 800m time trial with a running start

    nonsense

    there is no evidence of a flying start

    watch the start of vid properly

    paced by a guy on a bike

    again watch the vid

    there are occasions he swings wide into lane 2, offering no drafting

    pacing in itself means little

    maloofi damn well knows what 1'44 pace is

    with no other runners to negotiate can result in quicker than race times

    primarily from running tight in lane-1 with no extra distance on bends

    Are you incapable of actually listening and learning from real experts?

    laughable

    being an elite athlete only makes you an elite runner not an "expert"

    being an elite coach makes you an elite coach, not necessarily an expert

    the coach of the best 800 guy of synthetic track era in Rudy is someone called father colm who is a preacher & schoolteacher

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/london-2012-olympics-blog/2011/apr/26/running-with-the-kenyans

    there is nothing there to suggest any "expert" other than in right place at right time & putting in helluva lot of effort

    does he sound like a guy who studies all the coaching literature, techniques, etc like sal or canova ??

    i commend him for helping developing the sport in kenya, but looking at the primitive strength work done by kenyan athletes, it appears he hasn't a clue about developing strength in runners which is what sal has said has been main reason for mo's success

    this guy's success is more to having the best talent in the world to work with than any great "expertise"

    give canova control of all those athletes & modern facilities, including modern gyms & what do you think wouda been the result ??

    don't delude yourself that being an elite athlete or coach makes you any kind of "expert"

    canova & sal are, most others, it's an unknown
  • Moderators out there?
    5 years ago 09/25/2015 2:45pm CDT
    re: ventolin^3
    Forum Index

    Someone please ban this guy for awhile. He totally destroys really good threads. It gets super old.
  • bongolin^^^1/3
    5 years ago 09/25/2015 2:51pm CDT
    re: ventolin^3
    Forum Index
    ventolin^3 wrote:

    i can name on fingers of both hands the races in last 40+y i woud like to have seen on satellite & haven't, in chronological order :

    - caballo 1'43.44wr in '77

    - all of rono's wrs in '78

    - maree whupping ovett in 3'48.8 in rieti '81

    - aouita 3'34.8 with 36+ finish in '84


    Hello ventobongo^3! Maybe you have missed a few races, but at least you have seen the great Niyonbongo race in Bunga Bunga.
  • rise of the mostly dead
    5 years ago 09/25/2015 2:51pm CDT
    re: Moderators out there?
    Forum Index

    He is a mod and a dumb one at that.
    I've seen all those races that you missed, moran. I know way more than you do.
    You are not an expert.
  • somebloke
    registered
    5 years ago 09/25/2015 2:57pm CDT
    re: rise of the mostly dead
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    another thread destroyed by the great ventolin.
  • ventolin^3
    registered
    5 years ago 09/25/2015 3:55pm CDT
    re: JRinaldi
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    JRinaldi wrote:I regards to the workout, the 800m wasn't really that impressive (other than the time to us who can't run 1:44)

    wow !!!

    you ever run a 1'44-solo then few minutes later a 500 at 1'43.6 pace !!!

    then followed it with a 52+ & 39+ a few minutes even after that ???!!!

    that was a fantastic work-out & anyone with a clue indicates someone capable of something like a 1'42-low in a fully rested, perfectly run 800

    I've done a workout where I ran a solo (no pacing or anyone else running behind me) in 1:48.1 8min rec then ran 10x200m with 60sec recover and averaged 25.4 with the last rep in 23.2

    very impressive

    i'm no coach but read enough workouts to believe you shouda been capable of coupla secs quicker than 1'48.1 if had run your best possible flat-out 800 & nothing saved for 200 reps

    that gets you a 1'46.0

    Considering my pb was only 1:47.60, you'd think that the 800 I ran would indicate that I was capable of a lot quicker

    yes

    but my results show that I wasn't

    your problem

    very few, even elite guys run their best possible 800 :

    - i already stated that maloofi in his then 1'43.71pb shortly after games ran ~ 6.5m wide on bends -> ~ 1'42.8+ if route-1, tight in lane-1

    he also jogged the start at 25.4s when 24-high is expected if chasing a fast pb - he threw away plenty of tenths right there

    compounding this was an outrageous, ruinous sprint to get upto aman at bell which wouda cost plenty more tenths for an ideal race

    that gets him to ~ 1'42-low & probably 1'42-flat at games when in actual peak shape

    he still has a 1'43-mid pb to today, so even an elite pb for 800 indicates nothing for actual 800 ability given perfect race

    - souly this year has run 1'42.97pb

    go watch it

    it had ridiculous amount extra run on bends ~ 8.5m & with little drafting & he gave up somewhat at finish when knowing he was beat

    that indicates ~ ( 800 / 808.5 ) * 1'42.97 = 1'41.88

    & with his lack of drafting on 1st lap & slight giving up at end, we are talking a perfect 800 for him of route-1 all the way & paced perfectly for the 200+m upto bell at ~ 1'41.5 !!!

    this shows that even a 1'42.97pb can be nonsense

    - Rudy running 1'40.91WR of near suicidal 23.4 to immediately break the field !!!

    more sensible 24.4 + pacing for 200+m to bell & no fatigue of rounds in his legs, he wouda been looking at ~ 1'40-low in a zurich or brussels

    even the wr holder can claim his pb was nowhere representative of his ability

    So a 1:43 guy running 1:44.6 behind a bike seems more than reasonable to me

    nonsense

    the bike wasn't ahead of him all the time & he followed up with a quicker paced 500 & slightly slower 400 & 300

    anyone with a clue woud know that indicated something great in the 1'42s if a 1-off fully rested perfect 800

    I saw Johnny Gray ran a solo 1:25.3 for 700m...that was pretty impressive

    no offence to great man but this doesn't seem possible for him or probably anyone

    for a start, 1'25.3 = 1'13.1 pace for 600m which is only fractionally quicker than his 1'12.8wr

    this means that 700 was virtually his wr pace for 600 held on for another 100m !!!

    not likely at all

    then :

    Rudy in 1'40.91 split 1'27.3

    in his 1'41.01 he split 1'27.6

    in his 1'41.09 he split 1'27.3

    then from calculator, assuming johnny had 45.0 - 45.5 speed at the time, which is wide range but it shoud encompass his 400 shape at time of this 700

    45.0 - 45.5 with various 800s for a theoretical 700m :

    1'42.0 -> 1'27.3 - 1'27.4

    1'41.0 -> 1'26.6 - 1'26.7

    1'40.0 -> 1'25.9 - 1'26.0

    we have already got down to 1'40.0 & his theoretical 700 is still nowhere close to 1'25.3

    to get to 1'25.3 with 45.0 - 45.5 indicates theoretical 800 of :

    45.0 - 45.5 / 1'25.3 -> 1'39.03 - 1'39.27

    no runner shoud collapse so badly from his theoretical 800 off a 700tt to actual 800

    that 1'25.3 is likely a typo or wrong timing &/or distance...
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