High School Girls XC and crazy parents

Why such a callous and cruel response? This is a valid and unfortunately common issue amongst coaches, and the posting coach is obviously sensitive to the teams spirit and calling out for help. Then he gets a cruel response to quit from some angry frustrated person who has no insight, and is trolling for the only recognition they can get.

Your cruelty is the manifestation of someone who does not distinguish between positive and negative attention.

'To hold someone down in the ditch, you have to be in the ditch too.'

I'm a XC / track dad. While I love the sport (and my kids) and follow it (them) closely, I NEVER give the coach advice or criticize the coach (even when it has been warranted).

I agree with the other poster who said that you should document their princess' attendance and training effort and communicate that to the parents.

I had a dad say to me once, 'the coach plays favorites.' I asked him, 'so your son's running fast, but the coach won't run him in the top 7?' He said, 'no, Jack's not fast enough to be in the top 7...' and he quickly shut up.

The point is that you should drop some truth on these parents.

Also, for what it's worth, many parents realize that you coaches put it an enormous amount of time and get paid next to nothing. We appreciate you, even if you're not perfect :)

xcxcxc1 wrote:

Correction, not Indoor? bur Retire Now, why that post?

While I don't agree with the angry and mean manner in which he wrote his post, I was actually thinking the same thing. I want to be empathetic to the OP, but his posts read like they are written by a bot. I couldn't even follow the second post. I am wondering if he might have some communication issues.

Let me shed some light on the other side of this equation.

Different situation, different state. Girl runs mid 18s as a sophomore. Leader of team and led them to states. First state appearance in over a decade. Not great but not bad. Coaches are absolutely horrible. Yelling at girls, lying to them, parents and admin, bullying the girls, etc. Destroyed the confidence of this girl and she does not run again in high school. In fact, 4 of the top 7 did not return to team again. Team does not qualify for states again. This year, largest high school in the state, 13 girl runners for cross country. Girls are actively avoiding this school and finding ways to attend other schools because of the coaching. You can't run from reputation.

All this to say that bad coaches do indeed exist.

If you are getting new runners each year and your program is growing then you are doing something right. If not, then it's time to evaluate.

Sounds like the OP is doing things right.

I too am a runner's dad. I too would never criticize our coach because I know he is TRYING. Unfortunately, his efforts, that were enough when he was younger, more enthusiastic and didn't have young kids at home, are now not cutting it and the size of the team is dropping because of it.

The problem is over the years EVERY HS coach learns that some parents and/or athletes are crazy so any comments the coach doesn't agree with get labeled as crazy and don't get any response.

I'm sure the parents the OP is dealing with ARE crazy. The best thing the OP can do is to open up the lines of communication with all of the team parents and his administration. If everyone is working together, the few that aren't, like the OP's crazy parents, will stick out more and eventually they will step on the wrong person's toes and they will get some truth dropped on them with the support of the rest of the group.

Put her times and all the team times on a list for the parents, along with the training schedule and her attendence (or lack of). Playing competitive soccer, basketball, and running XC all is a little much. At some point princess is going to need to cull a sport or two, especially if she expects to perform at any of them at a level to get the interest of a college coach.

The great thing about XC and T&F is that times are very objective, there is the time you ran vs others, who is the best. Be glad you are dealing with parents in other sports like football, soccer or baseball where everything is subjective - coach's opinion of kid's ability vs the parent's perception of their kid's ability.

I know times and the clock aren't the only consideration when coaching or recruiting XC and Track. Attitudes, personalities, past training or lack of, participation in multiple sports, etc all enter into the equation. But if a kid doesn't have the marks, they don't get a look. If their marks are borderline, all these other factors come into play. Had several college track coaches tell me they have a hard time imagining how hard recruiting was before the internet and electronic timing databases.

perfect for eharmony wrote:

Friend of mine left coaching after having to deal with parents much like this. Said he would only come back to coaching if he did so at an orphanage.

lolololol

a fellow coach wrote:

perfect for eharmony wrote:

Friend of mine left coaching after having to deal with parents much like this. Said he would only come back to coaching if he did so at an orphanage.

lolololol

He's an orphan coach looking for a job.

perfect for eharmony wrote:

Friend of mine left coaching after having to deal with parents much like this. Said he would only come back to coaching if he did so at an orphanage.

My high-school coach always said his dream job was coaching at an orphanage.

I coached HS boys and girls. boys are easier. you can corner a boy and lay down the rules and law and give him an "or else". Girls, it's different. They run home and tell mommy and daddy that they are innocent, and that this horrible person is picking on them, etc..

Like a previous post, I didn't care if a parent was angry, and it proved to be the best thing for the team. There were a few that left because they felt it was the coach's duty to carry the equipment or the coach's fault they were not getting fast even though they didn't run at all during the summer months. blah blah blah.

OP, Stick to your guns, and ride it out. Tell this girl, "I'm the coach. If you and your parents don't like it you can leave or try to get another coach. I have ___ number of girls here, and you are the only one who is difficult. Here are the times girls are running.."

Show her a newspaper with results of girls running 18's etc and tell her to shut up unless she can run those times.

Shoebacca wrote:

What do you mean she missed the final six weeks to rest for basketball? Can you clarify that?

I was wondering if another coach doesn't have this girl's ear a bit more firmly than the OP. Was she trying to run CC then do basketball conditioning afterwards. Sounds like the basketball coach may have told her to pick one or is telling her she has some potential to play a lot and has her rethinking running.

Two thoughts upon further reflection:

1. She shouldn't be doing basketball conditioning and XC at the same time, and the basketball coach should be your first ally in shutting this down. If she joins the team, she's on the team for the duration of the season. The basketball coach wouldn't let you poach girls at the end of his season for Track conditioning, and should give you the same courtesy in the fall.

2. I'm wondering if the dad may have been joking around with you. I started to wonder this even before reading the posts calling out your communication skills (too harshly put, btw.) I often find myself in a frame of mind where I'm so focused on the team that I don't pick up things like this myself.

If you care about it more than they do, then sit them down from racing or drop them from the team. If they're varsity drop them to JV and let it go. When I coached I had runners who I paid very little attention to. They just didn't put in the effort. I was never disrespectful but I wasn't attentive.

I focused my attention on those who "tried".

As for the parents? If they started to tell me how to coach I simply told them to remove their kid from the team if they were unhappy but to ask their child first if they wanted to drop.

2runnergirl wrote:

I've found the bad-seed parent will usually take as much of your energy as all the other parents combined. Try asking him how he wants this to workout ideally.

And you keep going. It's not one question.

"How do you want it to workout?"

"And then what?"

"What do you imagine the steps are?"

"Here are the steps in this program. She's completed 50% and has shown what 50% effort delivers."

Managing stage parents is very very difficult.

What would be useful is an athletic version of the attendance/homework website systems for schools. Johnny/Jane's team work right there for the parent, kid, coach to see and discuss.

1runnerboy wrote:

I've a parent who is out of his mind because his little princess is not getting the recognition he thinks she deserves. Not earned but deserves.

What do you mean not getting the recognition she deserves?

I figured the good thing about track and XC is times don't lie. The gun goes off and everyone has an equal chance. You run fast you get recognition.

Other sports must be much worse for coaches. A soccer parent can always say his kid is really good, being put in the wrong position, not getting enough playing time.

In track, I don't see how they can argue the coach isn't getting recognition. I can see how they could argue with your training.

As a teacher, parents are the bane of my existence. If any parents are reading this, please for the love of God let your kids solve some of their own problems. Make your kid march his butt up to the teacher's desk and ask his question instead of having mommy or daddy e-mail. And this goes for younger kids, too. Also - your kid isn't as smart as you think. But I digress.

Only echoing what others have said, but you need to start talking to people. Have a conversation with the basketball coach to get to the bottom of that. Give the AD a head's up - administrators know parents are crazy, but they also don't like to be caught off guard by an unhinged lunatic showing up in their office. Give them advance notice that you have a reactive parent and the administration will be far more likely to back you if push come to shove.

Suggesting the dad contact the newspaper himself isn't actually the worst idea, either. It will make him see the absurdity of it.

And finally, I see that you're in a competitive region, but it is after all a high school sports team. The fact of the matter is, a lot of kids come out for the team for the socializing and popularity. Doesn't mean you can't still have a positive and goal-oriented team culture, though. As Otter pointed out, praise effort over ability. If you've got a 22 minute runner who worked her butt off and is now running 21:xx, give a lot of positive reinforcement in front of the team. I'm not saying she should be running varsity, but this will help build a culture of hard work.

I have a daughter who is a high school XC and track runner. I and other parents help the coach. We help at practices by taking splits, run with slower groups of runners at practices to encourage them and make sure they are safe. All families bring food to share at potlucks after meets. Parent take splits at practices and meets. Some take photos for the team, help plan trips, etc. I have discussed my thoughts privately with the coach regarding which meets may be of interest to add to the schedule for the next season. He has requested input from me on this on other topics. I often provide arguments for each side of a decision and always leave the decision up to him even when it is a decision regarding my daughter and not the whole team. I do a lot of research for the coach for meets and competition at upcoming meets. I send out extra information to parents before meets such as course maps and parking suggestions. I do a lot of the things he does not have time to do. I and the other parents leave the coaching of the kids to him. Parents can be assets. A coach at another team I know also has parents that he said are very helpful. One of his extremely helpful parents is a co-worker of mine.

What's the big deal about XC and T&F coverage in local newspapers. Fewer people read them now then ever and the newspapers have little content. XC and T&F coverage receive a fraction of the coverage that other sports such as football and basketball receive. They seldom send anyone to any meets in my state other than the state meet and maybe three of the bigger XC meets. The co-worker showed me a newspaper article about his daughter winning a race. The newspaper did not list any times for any of the runners. Send your parent to Runnerspace/Dyestat and Milesplit so he can see what kinds of times it takes for a runner to get noticed. Many parents may have no idea of what kind of times it takes to be considered fast outside of the little meets they have attended.

Athletic.net can be used so show his daughter's ranking in the state of Michigan. Tell him girls that are committed to running and want to run in college are running 30 to 45 miles per week year round even through the worst part of Michigan's recent winters. They only take off one or two weeks after each season and most of them compete indoors during the winter at MITS meets. Kirsten Olling ran even in snow storms. I think she was quoted as saying it was just one mile during a snow storm but she was still committed to running every day. Every day may be a going a little too far when pain or minor injury call for a day of rest. One Michigan's top high school distance runners continued running on her own 2 or 3 days a week last winter while playing on one of the better Michigan basketball teams between XC and track seasons.

I am not a helicopter Dad. My daughter is running because it was her choice. She has reached out to college coaches on her own for recruiting. I have only talked to coaches when we have gone on unofficial visits and only once on the telephone when a coach asked to talk with me to discuss a financial question affecting student aid.

I know I am not perfect. I just think that I and other parents I have seen have been very helpful to coaches.

My last high school XC coach had been a wrestling coach. I don't know if he had any running background. What bother me was not his lack of experience. At least he was trying. What caused problems for me and other team members was he keep making promises to the team he never kept. The one that sticks out was a promise of new uniforms. I finally assumed the school had no money in the budget for uniforms. The coach should not have promised something he could not deliver and continue saying it would occur later in the season. After a number of these unfulfilled promises that were affecting the team morale I finally confronted him about all his promises. His unfulfilled promises were causing many of the runners to look down upon the coach and dismiss anything he said as a lie. My advice to coaches is be honest with the runners. Don't promise more than you can deliver. Don't make up an answer if you don't know for sure. Don't try to diagnose injuries if he do not have the training. Look for a free clinic for athletes in the area where you may send them for diagnosis. You may get away with faking what you do not know for a while but sooner or later the athletes will figure out that you have not been honest with them. Let them know that while you have learned much over your years of coaching also let them know you do not know everything but you are striving to learn more all the time so you can be a better coach.

This is your fault! You have enabled her to act like this. If she can't participate and train with the team kick her off the team. I don't understand why we as coaches have let this kind of attitude and disrespect happen in our sport. Imagine if someone acted like this in football, soccer, baseball, basketball, ect. You don't just miss training and expect to be apart of the team and compete. If you read anything about Bill Aris or Joe Newton, they don't put up with this kind runner. You are going to give 100% or you are not going to be a part of the team.

As my college coach told me one time crap or get of the pot!

Respond by pointing out your good runners- their times, their improvement and their attendance at practice, camp, etc

Can you AD get involved?

Then, let him talk all he wants and let your record speak for itself.

I've had parents of bad runners tell me I don't know what I'm doing.

My team has been our Section's Champion 9 of the 13 years I've coached and was 2nd the years we didn't win.