Missoula, MT.
Missoula, MT.
I find it ironic that he doesn't understand the word ironic
Look at Big Ten cities. Large, good schools = lots of jobs and affiliations with large businesses. Good relationship with young, active community. Young, active community = vibrant, innovative culture. Lots to do in and around the university and surrounding neighborhoods. These cities have exceptional healthcare with good schools. Some cities are larger than others, and the southern Midwest gets four-full seasons.
Yours is a similar situation of a long time buddy, just moved his wife and two kids from DC to Columbus. He couldn’t be happier – it’s kind of annoying, current mortgage is 60% of his rent in DC. Neighborhood they chose is equally as walkable as DC (they only have 1 car in Columbus). Schools are excellent. 20ish breweries in the area. Races to run every weekend… It goes on, many of the other big ten cities are similar.
It really depends on your ideal climate and how close you want to be to others in your family. I'd vote for Memphis, TN, obviously...
One of the lowest costs of living in the country - #4 on this list:
And, Memphis is on the rise. We are seeing a revitalization that will only serve to increase the value of your investment. There's also a great running community that is supported by a couple of running shops (Fleet Feet, Breakaway).
And, you are only a few hours away from a few other (fun) mid-size cities if you ever feel the need to get away for a weekend - Nashville, New Orleans, Little Rock, and so on.
I've been researching a similar move for the past months as my girlfriend must apply for residencies in her medical program next June, and we have to submit a list of 15-20 locations that we're willing to go to for two years (with potential to stay longer). We submit our locations and are told which one we're going to in January. Anyway if it helps, these are the resources that I've found and have been using so far.
An interesting map I found which graphs aggregate "Quality of Living" data for every county in the US (education, income, unemployment, poverty, life expectancy) on an quickly browsable map:
City Data.com is the big one everyone knows, though it's worth it to be able to pull up a page for any city or town and quickly see weather, demographics, employers, etc. The forums for each city are very active and helpful too:
http://www.city-data.com/city/Salt-Lake-City-Utah.html
The Census site has an American Factfinder which lets you see all of the latest census data for any city and compare against other cities:
http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/nav/jsf/pages/index.xhtml
and
http://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045214/00
Another interactive map that gives a subjective description of the population of any neighborhood, allowing you to enter a Zip code and then move around the map and quickly see differences between neighboring areas. Kind of hokey but the descriptions are fairly accurate based on areas I've lived:
http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry
Also, padmapper if you aren't already using it. Charts craigslist and other housing/apartment lists onto Google Maps so you can move into any area and quickly see rent prices and listings:
---
For my own search, we're basically looking for somewhere within 30-40 minutes of a major city (metropolitan area of 1 million plus). I can work from anywhere. We'd like a somewhat educated area. Price is a factor but not too much as we'd be making around 150K combined, without kids. I want to have a car and be able to go grocery shopping and park without too much headache, and live in at least a duplex with small yard if not a single family home. Access to a real city is important. She prefers the Eastern Seaboard, preferably within 2 hours of Boston though I prefer somewhere on the west coast, including the mountain states, southwest or northwest. We're applying to both. She wants access to swim-able bodies of water and I want to be by a National Park and good trails. We both want mountains.
I'm definitely finding that there's no ideal city, there's always a tradeoff, and you end up paying for the nicer places. Our preliminary list:
Boston Area, e.g. Newton, Randolph, Bedford (+Nice/large city with world class museums/restaurants, +Great jobs, +Very educated, -Very expensive, -Not very good nature, - Not great for cars, -Stressfull)
Boulder Area (+World class mountains/trails, +Educated, +Low stress/High quality day to day life, -Expensive, -Somewhat Isolated, -Group think)
Northampton, MA (+Relatively affordable, +Nice green area, +Good community feel, +Educated, +Within 1-2.5 hours of Boston, NYC, Providence, Hartford, +Good cultural institutions for a small town, -Definitely a small town and not close to a real city, -Weather not great)
Salt Lake City (+Very affordable, +Very beautiful, +World Class nature/hiking, +Healthy, +Very Low Stress, -Strong Mormon influence can make nightlife and public schools feel a bit alienating, -Travel in/out not the easiest)
Marin County e.g. Mill Valley/San Rafael (+Stunning location with Muir Woods, Redwoods, Sonoma Valley, +30 Minute commute to San Francisco but well outside of city, -Have to deal with Bay Area people, -Very Expensive)
Seattle/Redmond, WA
Burlington, VT
Minneapolis, MN
Raleigh/Durham, NC
Austin, TX
Tempe, AZ
Santa Fe, NM
Asheville, NC
---
Hello again wrote:
Boulder Area (+World class mountains/trails, +Educated, +Low stress/High quality day to day life, -Expensive, -Somewhat Isolated, -Group think)
---
Group think? You obviously haven't lived in Boulder. I highly suggest Boulder, well, unless you really believe that.
great California areas wrote:
East Oakland
Richmond/Vallejo
Compton/Watts
Modesto/Stockton
Riverside
Tenderloin/Hunter's Point
Bed-Sty
East New York
Ozone Park
Chattanooga TN
no income tax, great trails, you're close enough to Nashville and ATL if you want to see a concert, etc.. but you don't deal with their issues.
Republican dominated suburbs have the highest quality of life.
Old D2 Guy wrote:
Hello again wrote:Boulder Area (+World class mountains/trails, +Educated, +Low stress/High quality day to day life, -Expensive, -Somewhat Isolated, -Group think)
---
Group think? You obviously haven't lived in Boulder. I highly suggest Boulder, well, unless you really believe that.
Don't get me wrong, Boulder is probably my top choice personally, as my favorite area in the US is Flagstaff though it's a be a bit too small and lacking in job options for my girlfriend. What I meant by that is that some cities seem to have a bit of a collective attitude. For example, in DC you seem to hear "So what do you do?" immediately every time you meet someone new and everyone seems to be all about their jobs. Maybe I'm wrong about Boulder but my reading was that their "what do you do?" is basically replaced by "Do you climb?/Do you ski?/Do you mountain bike?". Certainly in Flag that seemed to be the majority of conversations. Those are my biggest hobbies too so it could certainly be worse, it just feels a bit cliquish sometimes.
The rust belt is not a bad place to be if you have very good job prospects. Columbus, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Indianapolis are all crazy cheap places to live with very good k-12 schools in the burbs. Old money from the days of the big industrialists like Carnegie and Rockefeller have left a legacy of outstanding performing arts organizations and big parks and other public amenities. The explosion of cost of living in the east and west has sent a lot of tech start ups to these areas and a lot of top Wall Street talent is getting recruited to regional banks in the rust belt.
If you do not have good job prospects, the rust belt is still struggling economically to come back from the great recession. Job growth and population growth are still big issues for rust belt cities, with the exception of Columbus. An emerging tech sector is great news, but it really isn't robust enough to see any affect on the really depressed areas that are a source of a lot of drugs and crime (Hough in Cleveland, ungentrified parts of Over the Rhine in Cincinnati, etc.). There is really no answer in sight for broad based economic redevelopment in the rust belt.
Precious Roy wrote:
The rust belt is not a bad place to be if you have very good job prospects. Columbus, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Indianapolis.
Yuck, Why in the world would you want to be THAT cold in those nasty old cities? Those places sound horrible.
Look for a place that's low tax, low crime (i.e. white). If you're worried about the schools most suburban public schools do just fine or you can take the money you save by not living in a high tax state and put your kids in private school.
jiminy crick wrote:
Look at Big Ten cities. Large, good schools = lots of jobs and affiliations with large businesses. Good relationship with young, active community. Young, active community = vibrant, innovative culture. Lots to do in and around the university and surrounding neighborhoods. These cities have exceptional healthcare with good schools. Some cities are larger than others, and the southern Midwest gets four-full seasons.
Yours is a similar situation of a long time buddy, just moved his wife and two kids from DC to Columbus. He couldn’t be happier – it’s kind of annoying, current mortgage is 60% of his rent in DC. Neighborhood they chose is equally as walkable as DC (they only have 1 car in Columbus). Schools are excellent. 20ish breweries in the area. Races to run every weekend… It goes on, many of the other big ten cities are similar.
+1
Madison, Minneapolis, Columbus, Ann Arbor...
NonDemocrat wrote:
Republican dominated suburbs have the highest quality of life.
Correct!
FormerAllAmerican wrote:
Carmel, Indiana
Excellent choice.
Certain places in upstate NY....
I can't believe some of the expensive areas some of the people have posted on this thread. You aren't answering the OP's question at all.
Suggestions near large cities
Kansas City, and live in some burbs on the Kansas side
Nashville, TN
Columbus, OH
Smaller cities:
Bloomington, IN
Jonesboro, AR
TNrunnah wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:The rust belt is not a bad place to be if you have very good job prospects. Columbus, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Indianapolis.
Yuck, Why in the world would you want to be THAT cold in those nasty old cities? Those places sound horrible.
Look for a place that's low tax, low crime (i.e. white). If you're worried about the schools most suburban public schools do just fine or you can take the money you save by not living in a high tax state and put your kids in private school.
Private school in most major metros is off the charts expensive these days. Even catholic schools are getting pricey. Where I live, $16-20k is average for K-8 and $20-26k is average for high school. No typical middle class family can afford private school.
Taxes are not that bad in the rust belt. East and West coast taxes are far worse. Cost of living is zero in the Midwest. $250k will get you a great house in the burbs with great schools. There is no crime in the burbs in the Midwest. Urban areas are bad, but a 20 min drive out to the burbs and it is all gone.
Places like Austin, TX, Minneapolis, MN, and Nashville, TN that are way more interesting are also way more expensive. Living 20 min from downtown in those cities will cost you at least double what it costs to live in the Midwest.
I wouldn't touch the Midwest with a fifteen hundred mile pole and I lived there for 11 years. But, now having a family, I can see how there are real benefits to the low cost of living and good schools. Kids don't eat sushi and can't drink at brew pubs. Boring towns with good schools and cheap real estate are what true middle class families need.
Minneapolis is the right answer. I mean Minneapolis, or maybe St. Paul though it's not nearly as interesting, and not the suburbs. The suburbs here are terrible.
Benefits: Great running community. Outstanding local road races with many competitive athletes. Good public schools. Wonderful greenspace. Beautiful wilderness areas within a few hours' drive for camping, etc. Affordable neighborhoods in the city so that you don't have to live in the suburbs. A great progressive mayor and city council who are doing their best to drive the city forward despite the temper tantrums thrown by the republicans in the legislature. Tons of outstanding food and beer. The summers can be very hot but the fall, winter, and spring weather are wonderful (yes, it snows, and yes, it gets cold, but the city is prepared to handle those things, and there's nothing better than a solo run after a snowstorm when the air is cold and crisp, the sun is shining, the snow is undisturbed, and nobody else is outside).
Drawbacks: the public transit system is quite poor for a city of this size. We're paying for several f*cking ugly stadiums for billionaires. The sports teams are terrible, but that can also be a benefit as it's fun to watch the sad-sack Vikings fans suffer every year.
Too much Somali crime in Minneapolis.