Re: Very disappointing start to XC (Highschool)

Disappointed wrote:

****Keep in mind., these 2 5k's are my only 5k's I've ever ran in my life.,

Maybe you need to keep that in mind.

This is probably largely mental, and guess what, the mind is just another part of the body that needs training. So get out there and run more races. Your eventual success will be all the sweeter after being able to truly put crap performances behind you.

And while you're training your mind by getting those racing miles in, remember, the goal is to focus on success, not on not failing.

Disappointed wrote:

My second meet, I took it controlled. I ran 5:25 first mile, 11:20 through 2 miles, then my body just gave up and I ended up running 18 something.

1st mile=5:25, 2nd mile=5:55, 3rd mile=~7 minutes+.

Do you see a trend here? You're smart you should be able to figure it out.

EVERYONE has the same problem when they're warming up before a race... What YOU have to work on is your MENTALITY. Running is not only physical it's also mental. You have to always keep a positive mindset. Not just the day of the race but throughout the week of the race.. Think about the race.. if you already know the course picture yourself running through it. Visualizing your races will make it easier for you on race day. Try to be as calm as possible in race day. Of course you'll get jitters and stuff but try to stay RELAXED. Positive thinking can lead you to things you've never experienced before.. I learned this from THE SECRET... Also known as THE LAW OF ATTRACTION. Good luck.

This seems to be a common thread among our younger posters and understandable. Many of you are experiencing organized training and competition for the first time and it is easy to get frustrated. My first rule of thumb is to keep it simple especially on race day. Don't over think things when you are at the stating line, this creates anxiety you don't need. There should be only one thing on your mind....pass more runners than pass you....Don't think about pacing and don't look at your watch or clocks, you are racing not practicing or running a time trial. In fact, take time completely out of your mind. In XC it is all about getting your best placing for the lowest team score.

So, this is what you should do just before the gun goes off. Take a deep breath, relax, clear you mind (which isn't easy) and visualize catching and passing everyone between you and the finish line. All that matters is that you have faith in your training and that you make the best effort possible. Go out quick but controlled. Get into a relaxed cadence and start chasing down the competition. That is the fun part, racing people not fretting over pacing and splits, that is what practice is for. Let that next runner you have to catch supply you with the motivation you need to push harder. Remember, everyone in the race is struggling with the same purpose as you to be the fastest. Well I say, don't focus on being fast, focus on beating the guy in front of you, to the breaking point and then you push harder. That is how you become fast.

Next time out, start SLOW and finish strong.

Shoot for just barely sub 6:00 in the first mile, then pick it up and start reeling people in. You have nothing to lose by going slow the first mile.

Sounds like you need to relax.

You're definitely right. I've been watching way too many Olympian/college athletic highlights of 800m/mile/XC and then looking up superb training logs to follow.

I have to admit, I'm aiming for time. We've done time trials where I've ran 10:40 for 2 miles, and then I get completely slumped on race day. I will definitely have a mentality training -if that make sense- and not take cc so seriously.

Thanks for the long reply, adds motivation to what I need to fix in cc.

Disappointed wrote:

[quote]runningbuddah wrote:

[quote]Disappointed wrote:

You're definitely right. I've been watching way too many Olympian/college athletic highlights of 800m/mile/XC and then looking up superb training logs to follow.

I have to admit, I'm aiming for time. We've done time trials where I've ran 10:40 for 2 miles, and then I get completely slumped on race day. I will definitely have a mentality training -if that make sense- and not take cc so seriously.

Thanks for the long reply, adds motivation to what I need to fix in cc.

You are welcome, you just alluded to a problem with sports. People get caught up in the spectacle of the top performers, which for the fandom of the sport is a good thing. However, it breeds the need to emulate the best and we follow their recipes and visualize our name in lights with the record time or the big medal hanging around our neck. Hey, dreaming is the seed of ambition and chasing the dream is life. However, we need to keep things in perspective to enjoy the pursuit.

So, learn from the examples of those who do great things and try their recipes for success. Follow the various training programs and temper that with advice from your coaches and other runners. Remember that times you run in practice and race results should be used for one purpose, evaluating your fitness and bench marking the competition, not an end result. The ultimate goal is to be as fit as possible and to crush race execution to the point of beating the field not racing the clock. Racing the clock is torture and torture is the purpose of training; no pain no gain. Don't torture yourself during the race, because racing is the fun part. Have fun and best of luck to you.

Disappointed wrote:

During practice, I can run 5:30x4, 2:20x3 and then 1:00 for 2, yet during the meets I CAN NOT perform. I will literally be so nervous, I will go to the bathroom 7 times, retie my shoes, keep on stretching, keep on seeing the faces of my competitors and getting even more nervous.

My first meet, I ran 5:20 first mile (slow course, and led the state leaders) and then threw up.

My second meet, I took it controlled. I ran 5:25 first mile, 11:20 through 2 miles, then my body just gave up and I ended up running 18 something.

I'm confused though, why am I able to run a 5:30x4 and all of those workouts, yet am always sucking so bad at the races?

****Keep in mind., these 2 5k's are my only 5k's I've ever ran in my life.

Thanks so much,

I think you have hit on the sources of the problem. You have not run enough races to learn to relax and pace yourself to a slow enough start. Think of the most of the season races as just preparation for the regional/district/state meet. While it is fun to win races early in the season top high school runners and college coaches are looking at it all as just preparation for the big races at the end of the season. You are too nervous at these early season races and need to relax so you can run like you do in practice. Far too many runners take off too fast for the first 1/2 mile to mile. You should not be in front of the state leaders. You should be behind them in most cases unless they are really going at a slow pace. The top runners know that they can be 20 or more feet behind the leaders for the first 1/2 to one mile and still easily beat them. They know some will go out too fast. You should feel like you can go faster when you hit the mile rather than feeling like you don't know how you are going to have enough to finish the race. By the mile you should start picking off all the runners who took off too fast. Mentally it is easier when you can pass people at this point than it is to feel like you can't keep the pace of others. Far too many just try to hold their position from the 1 to 2 mile points rather than pass runners. By the 1/2 to 1 mile you should be running based on feeling. Stay loose and relaxed and pay attention to your breathing. Push yourself a little to go a little faster to pass the next guy after say the first mile. Stay relaxed. If your breathing is still under control push yourself a little more. Listen to your body for the first 2 miles so keep an even pace. At around 3 miles you may start to have doubts but you need to push them out and think about it as a 1 mile race to the finish with you having a head start on all the runners behind you. Think of it as an investment that you are not about to give up. Start trying to pick your pace up on the last 1/2 to 1 mile. Don't wait to save it for the last 100 meters. Your training coming into the race is the investment you made and you just need to work on the mental aspect of running in a race.

I used to have a similar situation. First keep in mind that someone who is a very solid high school mid-D runner like yourself won't necessarily be able to translate that ability into the 5k for many potential reasons.

Racing Mid-D (800/1600) is way different than racing 5k. The shorter races are often half-way or 3/4 over before you ever snap out of your "adrenaline focus" for lack of a better way to put it. So you really don't get a chance to think yourself out of the race.

The 5k is a different animal altogether. I used to have a similar thing where I would run great 800/1600 times and I would kill the workouts in practice, but for some reason I couldn't get my 5k much below 17minutes. It definitely was mental.. I'd psyche myself out. Everyone is always telling you to relax, relax, but you have to understand that advice is directed towards people who get too amped up. It is definitely possible to over-relax before a 5k. If you aren't adequately warmed up/psyched up then that first mile (which is often so fast in hs xc) can really put you into debt. Then as you watch people start to pass you and you do the math as you pass the split stations you lose that competitive edge as you realize that you are falling apart. You got to want to race the whole race, like in a 800 or 1600. Once you fall into that tactical mindset of "If I only get passed by 3 people Ill still get #th place" you have already lost the edge. You really got to want to race.... which means different things for different people... some guys need to get angry, but regardless the ferocity that comes from a desire to compete has no substitute and it's why we have sports in the first place.

From your post it seems possible that you aren't eating enough food, but that's something you have to figure out on your own as it really varies.. some guys like a full breakfast before the 5k some guys just want a piece of toast with peanut butter.

My advice would be for your next race to drink a cup of coffee about 45 minutes before your race and then warm up like you never have before. Get yourself to the point where you are feeling like you are in the middle of an interval workout. That means heavy breathing, sweating, even some genuine fatigue. Try to time it so that you have about 10 minutes before your race when you finish your warm-up. Then do no let yourself cool down. Go out as hard as you can and just stay loose, but do not over-relax... stay angry/hungry whatever works. Get that first mile in the low 5:10's and then when that first guy comes around you.... race him. None of that stick to his heels like your life depends on it... just F'ing race him. You got to lose yourself or more specifically that existential control mechanism in your brain, which you think is on your side (which it is in most aspects of life), but it is holding you back when it comes to racing. This is really what makes a talented runner more than anything: The competitive hunger, the genuine love of racing. Just felt like a Sunday evening rant so sorry about length and Good Luck.

Wow, that really helped. Thanks so much for spending the time to write all that! I might actually try that hard workout before a 5k because I think it will shoot my heart rate up and it'll feel more like a workout then the 5k! And I will also only try different breakfast techniques, but will substitute coffee instead of orange juice (orange juice gives you somewhat of a burn)

Your post is very very helpful, thanks so so much!!

And haha, I'm Florida so the weather down here is always raining

That is terrible advice. Do NOT do a workout before a race if you want to do your best in the race. Don't focus on nutrition, though it could potentially be improved.

This is a simple solution, you're going out too fast and you're dying. I coach xc and have won multiple state titles and have a nationally ranked team and have been to Nike Nationals. We NEVER lead the race at the mile, even if I ave a runner who can win the race by 2:00 or a team that can take 1st-10th place. XC is not about time, it's about racing people. You should go out conservative the first 1200m of the race and then gradually pass people the rest of the race. If you find yourself in 1st at some point, relax and save your energy for the finish. Don't be that xc guy who chases times. Times mean nothing in xc. some courses are easy, some courses are hard. Some courses are short, or really short, and some courses are long. Turn off the clock and go race people.

thats not what he said

I was in a similar situation, as a good mid-distance runner (1:55 in high school, 1:51 in college) that struggled moving up to the 5K and especially to the 8K/10K. First, I can say that you're very likely to have a breakthrough at the 5K at some point as your times and work ethic point to faster results than you've realized so far. But even if you don't see it this season, this work isn't going to go to waste - it'll help you in track too.

Second, I am not sure I'd focus too much on the breakfast. I don't like the coffee idea, as the last thing I'd want to be is dehydrated. But who knows, give it a try. Is there any chance that you're doing your races at 8 AM and all your workouts at 3:30 PM? Make sure you do a workout around the same time as your races at some point.

Thirdly, the guy above with his advice to just go run 16:00 pace when you've never successfully run 18:00 sounds like a nice quick fix to all your woes, but doesn't sound particularly realistic. I do suspect that you'll take a big chunk of your time the first time you put it all together, but think the idea of starting more comfortably and moving up throughout the race is a better approach until you get a few successes.

Lastly, for runners who have trouble with the transition between mid-distance and distance races like you and me, I would suggest you incorporate some aerobic threshold runs, like 3 miles at 6:00 pace in your case. I used to love the shorter workout (and clobber all our distance guys) but hate the longer, steady state runs. As a general rule, the workout that you hate the most is the one you need the most.

Good luck, you'll get there.

Ok so I had the same problem my junior year. Training super hard everyday i was running sub 5:30 on mile repeats and was top 3 in practice but when it came to races i was 5th and was running way slower than i thought i could. What you need to do is run longer and slower some days. 40mpw is ok but it would be better if you were doing the same workouts but ran 50mpw to include a couple of longer runs at 7:50 pace (trust me it sounds slow but its just what you need). I was in those exact same shoes so learn from someone else's experience. You just need more endurance to tie your training to your races.

That and you are going way to fast. You are not going to be in the kind if shape as the top state runners you need to try going out in about 6:00

Coffee does not dehydrate a person. Stop making up stuff.

Wow. To all of the above responders, thank you so so much. To the 1:55 guy, I definitely side with you on the fact that the short sprint workouts I definitely "kill" everyone out there, and on the 4 mile runs in able to maintain first. But I will definitely look into the 3 mile/6:00 pace and keeping the same pace.

And to the one who added in with "time isn't xc" is so true. Watching the highlight videos of the nation's top competitors makes you want to run 15's and not realize how hard it is. I was definitely going for time. I need to slow down, and pass people on the last mile or so (800m runners always have an amazing kick... For instance I ran my last 400 in 59)

And to everyone else, thank you so much for your input. Thanks soooooo much, I'll keep my times posted later on and review my full name in a couple of months with this post quoted, because I will definitely be a future top runner in the 800 and mile.

Thanks again :)

As a fellow Floridian (ran HS here back when I was young, and have coached here for years), let me add one thing. This is a classic Florida mid-d/distance running pattern: fast mid-d times on the track when the weather is perfect in the spring, and horrible XC races when the weather is awful in late summer/early fall. If you're a bigger runner, it is likely that you'll never post XC times in Florida that match your track times. It's just too damn hot and humid.

But even with all of that in mind, I agree with everything the others have mentioned. You will improve a lot just with experience and better pacing strategies. Good luck!

Stay away from Orange juice before your race especially if you get nervous... try water instead... that should help a little bit... biggest thing is just to relax... being nervous is good, being nervous to the point of an anxiety attack isn't...