How high can marathon entry fees get?

elephino wrote:

Hello Newman wrote:

My hometown marathon is charging $130 four months out...and it goes up as race day gets closer. I think that's too much, but it's still cheaper than traveling to an out of town race.

And for an out of town race, the entry fee is almost irrelevant. If you're spending hundreds of dollars on travel, what does it matter if the entry fee is $90 or $130?

Plus people doing a marathon as a special occasion are spending hundreds of dollars on shoes and fancy official running clothes and gps watches and coaching programs...

We live in an affluent age. It's amazing how much people shell out for their hobbies. Running, even entering a marathon, is among the cheaper hobbies.

Yep. Let's take Boston as an example, since it's the hobby jogger Olympics. By the time I've bought airline tickets, paid for multiple nights in a downtown hotel, gotten the obligatory Boston jacket, and paid for meals, I've spent well over $1,000. A $180 entry fee is not going to represent the breaking point. Heck, it's one of the cheaper parts of the whole trip!

Yes, and how much money did those lawyers pay to go to law school? Nice try.Executive Directors getting 3-4% of gross revenue is the wrong way to look at it. It's what did the do during that year to earn around $150,000? Please!

Hello Newman wrote:

Yep. Let's take Boston as an example, since it's the hobby jogger Olympics. By the time I've bought airline tickets, paid for multiple nights in a downtown hotel, gotten the obligatory Boston jacket, and paid for meals, I've spent well over $1,000. A $180 entry fee is not going to represent the breaking point. Heck, it's one of the cheaper parts of the whole trip!

Have to agree to a point... never bought a jacket in 3 trips but when I got injured and cancelled the 4th trip I did end up with a $150 tee shirt.

Lawyer 101 wrote:

Yes, and how much money did those lawyers pay to go to law school? Nice try.

Executive Directors getting 3-4% of gross revenue is the wrong way to look at it. It's what did the do during that year to earn around $150,000? Please!

My main point was that those "excessive" ED/top-tier employee salaries aren't the driving force behind increased entry fees. It doesn't seem we disagree about that. It also seems, though, that you're implying these EDs, whether their salaries are driving up entry fees or not, are overpaid. If you are, in fact, implying that, we do disagree on that point.

Sticking with the lawyer comparison (which may not be the best comparison as it was just a random example of a more-lucrative job), the type of lawyer at a major firm who is comparable to top-tier employees at major non-profit US marathons isn't an entry-level lawyer, but is a partner. These lawyers AVERAGE $400,000-$600,000 per year, or a multiple of about four of what US non-profit marathon EDs are paid ($100,000-$150,000). I'm not saying that the marathon EDs should be paid the same as, or even closer to, what partners in those firms are paid, but what I'm asking you is do you think that multiple should be even higher, and if so, what should it be?

Also, I agree that what an ED (or any employee) does should determine their salary. And so I guess I'll ask you, considering that an ED has to liaise with the board; do development, sponsorship, and fundraising; structure and manage a staff; assure that his/her organization's current programs are high-quality and aligned with the organizational goals and innovate to create and implement new ones if the current ones aren't up to snuff; assure that industry best-practices as relate to risk management and public safety are implemented at all race and non-race events; maintain strong ties with local civic leaders and government officials; be the public "face" of the organization to the local running community and the media; and rally various stakeholders (club members, volunteer groups, neighborhood associations, members of other running clubs and training groups, contractors and part-time staff, local businesses, schools, other non-profit groups, etc) around the organization, its events (especially its flagship marathon), and its mission . . . if that's done well, what do you think it's worth to an organization?

Being in charge of one of these organizations is more than just filing a couple permits, finding a sponsor, laying out some cones on race day, and then cutting a check to a beneficiary. It's a lot of year-round work, and I think the people currently doing it are paid appropriately (well, but appropriately) for their talents.

TL; DR

I'd guess that New York, Boston, and Chicago could increase registration to $400 and still sell out.

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, I really do, but I don't think it's a year round thing, I really don't. I know 2 race directors from big races and they don't make that much and both have other jobs (which they work less at as the marathon approaches in the final weeks). It's not easy, but $150,000, wow! They are not the only ones who are overpaid in my opinion, but they are one of them.

Sure, partners in law firms make more, no doubt about it. Many lawyers are overpaid as well, charging insane amounts of money for easy work redundant work but is sometimes necessary and many times not.

I have a friend who tried to fight a false PPO from a bully (who filed first for obvious reasons) and an attorney wanted $7000 to go to court to fight it for maximum of 3 hours depending on where they were on the docket that day. Who's the criminal?

Attorneys take advantage of people as well and many could care less when they do, just don't sue them (attorney grievance committee).

Race directors don't deserve $150,000 to put on a race, that's quite a salary for a job that is not anywhere near 40 hours a week. But, you're entitled to your opinion as well. Good day:)

The best sports participation deal on the planet is likely the Club NW all-comers meets in Seattle/Shoreline. $6 for any number of events 100m-5000, flat fast, accurate and good competition at the serious recreational level. Thanks to Bill Roe for making this a vibrant part of the local running scene.

fisky wrote:

I'd guess that New York, Boston, and Chicago could increase registration to $400 and still sell out.

I bet it's higher than that. Somewhere between $500 and $1,000 is when I 'd guess runners would start to balk.

Hello Newman wrote:

My hometown marathon is charging $130 four months out...and it goes up as race day gets closer. I think that's too much, but it's still cheaper than traveling to an out of town race.

Maybe that will be the end effect of sky high entry fees...people will run more local races and fewer "vacation" races. Who knows?

C. Kramer wrote:

Hello Newman wrote:

My hometown marathon is charging $130 four months out...and it goes up as race day gets closer. I think that's too much, but it's still cheaper than traveling to an out of town race.

Maybe that will be the end effect of sky high entry fees...people will run more local races and fewer "vacation" races. Who knows?

The host cities won't like that. They want out of towners to fill up hotel rooms and restaurants.

Funny thing is, the price for ultramarathons is a lot lower. I'm paying < $100 for a 100 miler

No, it will end, trust me. They are pricing themselves out of it and are making more money than people think, even after paying out for permits and law enforcement. It has officially become a business, not an organized race. Shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C. Kramer wrote:

Hello Newman wrote:

My hometown marathon is charging $130 four months out...and it goes up as race day gets closer. I think that's too much, but it's still cheaper than traveling to an out of town race.

Maybe that will be the end effect of sky high entry fees...people will run more local races and fewer "vacation" races. Who knows?

Between the last weekend of September and the first weekend of November, there's at least one Marathon every weekend in New England, all of which cost $90 or less to enter. It doesn't take much effort to find a much more modestly priced race.

Race directors don't deserve $150,000 to put on a race, that's quite a salary for a job that is not anywhere near 40 hours a week. But, you're entitled to your opinion as well. Good day:)

Dunno how discusion devolved comparing RD salaries to lawyers. Who said anything about lawyers? Mis-direction debate tactic. Sum-one needs to re-read Robert's Rules of Order. "I graduated medical school AND I'm RD so I should be paid like doctor for my RD duties"?

Current free 990s

How 'bout LRC examine rising entry fees? What is the cause? Are RD salaries really insignificant? Are they justified?

Bush Park 5K series in Salem, OR $3 dollars a race for 3K/5Ks. I think Eugene, OR has really cheap all comer meets on haywerd in the summer, Portland, OR has a 5K park series for $5 a race. the Stumptown XC series is only 15 a race (less if you sign up for all 5)

Some are way better values than others.

Steamtown was $90 and included: shuttle to start line, shirt, pre-race dinner, post-race food, all you can eat post-race dinner party with beers. I probably ate more than $90 of food in those two days alone. They also shut down about 9 towns along the route so IDK how they're making any profit. Definitely my favorite marathon. At Boston, Chicago, and CIM I paid more and only got a shirt.

Checked those 990s for multiple non-profit marathons.

Sometimes they have two directors making over or around 150k each.

How does that not affect entry fees and does this job really take 40 hours per week?

value runner wrote:

Some are way better values than others.

Steamtown was $90 and included: shuttle to start line, shirt, pre-race dinner, post-race food, all you can eat post-race dinner party with beers. I probably ate more than $90 of food in those two days alone. They also shut down about 9 towns along the route so IDK how they're making any profit. Definitely my favorite marathon. At Boston, Chicago, and CIM I paid more and only got a shirt.

Boston would have given you a bus ride to the start.