Which is better? Farah's 1:48 in a 13:50 or Bekele's 1:53 in a 12:53?

Les wrote:

Very good point. I think if you review Mo's closes in his championship races, most of the time he closes in around 1:53 -- regardless of the pace of the race.

"Regardless of the pace of the race"? All of his championship races have been slow.

Bottles of it wrote:Bekele is not that much slower than Farah in a 1500

no

just 3'28.8 v 3'32+ tells you he was hugely slower

at their peaks in perfect races it woud be more like :

3'27-flat v 3'30-mid

kennster woud never have broken 3'30 off his 5k/10k training whilst mo has already gone 3'28 twice off "similar" training

Pfi wrote:

Les wrote:

Very good point. I think if you review Mo's closes in his championship races, most of the time he closes in around 1:53 -- regardless of the pace of the race.

"Regardless of the pace of the race"? All of his championship races have been slow.

27:01 is not slow. In fact most of his championship 10ks have not been slow. In any case, the pace of the race is not Farah's fault. The goal of championship racing is to win -- period. If Farah was NOT in the race, would the pace be any faster?

ventolin^3 wrote:

Bottles of it wrote:Bekele is not that much slower than Farah in a 1500

no

just 3'28.8 v 3'32+ tells you he was hugely slower

at their peaks in perfect races it woud be more like :

3'27-flat v 3'30-mid

kennster woud never have broken 3'30 off his 5k/10k training whilst mo has already gone 3'28 twice off "similar" training

I'm confused, if Farah was in 3:27 flat shape then wouldn't he have run that time in Monaco this past year? Especially considering he would have had a perfect pacer to drag him to 3:27 considering Kiprop ran 3:26.6, a mere 0.4 seconds faster thus indicating that following directly behind Kiprop would have had Farah on exactly 3:27 pace.

Seems like he would have stuck right to Kiprop if he could've run that time, instead of running 3:28 high and finishing 5th. Wonder what kind of shape all 4 of the guys who were ahead of him were in then!!

Wipe the kum off your face and think again.

i see clowns are still posting here

clueless

you have no clue about how to run best possible 1500 :

it requires good weather, even-pace & importantly limpet-tight drafting to the bell

that offers ~ 0.7s/lap

go watch mo's 3'28.9 & learn

Asbel & his 2 pacers was long gone even on 1st lap leaving mo to pace the pack

if there had been a 2nd set of pacers for pack, going at 3'27/3'28 pace, mo wouda had a huge drafting advantage allowing him to run "standard" conditions for best 1500 - limpet-tight pacing to bell

mo was owed ~ 0.7s x 2.75 laps of pacing = 1.9s

which for an unpaced 3'28.9 = 3'28.9 - 1.9 =

3'27-flat

as for 5k, he hasn't bothered chasing the clock in past 4y !

in fact, there has only been 1 semi-serious 5k clock-chase this decade - paris-'12 but mo wasn't in that race nor was rupp or bernie

truly inept...

For the love of God don't engage ventolin. Skip over his posts. He's been on a manic fvcking rampage ever since his one 1500m Farah prediction came true. Nevermind his litany of idiotic predictions and constant, practically baseless speculation.

There is nothing Farah has ever done-- or will do-- that compares to Bekele. Mo's got a faster 1500m PR which only serves to prove that he's a cowardly (albeit 99.99 percentile) middle distance guy preying on a weak distance field because he can't win the 1500.

Why didn't Mo get with the pacers then? Always an excuse with you.

Blah blah .3 headwind. =3:25.99

Blah blah .0914 extra meters x-runner ran in the outside 2/5 of the first lane per lap. =3:25.99

Can your shit.

Mo Farah's last two laps in his 12:53 5k in Monaco 2011 was 1:53.

Which is better? Farah's 1:53 in a 12:53 or Bekele's 1:53 in a 12:53?

It depends on who you're a fan of.

ventolin^3 wrote:

how on earth coud kennster cope in last 4 laps of a slow 5k knowing he's got a 3'27-flat guy on his shoulder ???

He coped with Lagat...

Les wrote:

Mo Farah's last two laps in his 12:53 5k in Monaco 2011 was 1:53.

Which is better? Farah's 1:53 in a 12:53 or Bekele's 1:53 in a 12:53?

It depends on who you're a fan of.

How recently did either race their previous championship 10K? How fast did they close? And what were their finishing times?

With respect to the OP's sample comparison.

I'm on mobile and lazy. If I'm not mistaken Ken's 2008 Oly 10K was closed .. briskly. Then he went 12:57 for the 5K.

Mo ran moderately hard in his 10K .. Then he went 13:40.

Considering he's much faster than Farah over the marathon, yes. Bekele had good speed but he was basically a one lap kicker. Farah's kick is more about sustained speed which lends itself better toward the 1500.

that is nonsense

Asbel started with a 53-high in his 3'26.6

on your basis, he shouda run 3'24+ !!!

kennster was never better than 3'30-mid

you also fail to notice he got crushed by komen2 & choge in 2 of his 1500s & those guys weren't better than 3'31 in '07

3'28+ for kennster is a joke

no

"peers" is not valid

every guy is an individual with different speed/endurance

geb may very well have been 3'29-low/mid at his peak

komen was hugely quicker : in his 3'46.3 he got baulked badly twice at start, then took a near right turn out into lane 3 !!!

he then ran an outrageous sprint from near-last to the front in space of 80 - 100m !!!

he probably ran ~ 15m extra extra in that race with suicidal sprint early in 1st lap & got little drafting as doing lot of effective leading

he was worth 3'43+ that day in a "perfect" race, drafted to bell at even-pace, which is ~ 3'26+ !!!

komen had hugely better 1500 speed than geb let alone kennster but always ended up as rabbit from geb offering that parasite huge drafting advantage

likely 4s slower than komen

Les wrote:

Mo Farah's last two laps in his 12:53 5k in Monaco 2011 was 1:53.

Which is better? Farah's 1:53 in a 12:53 or Bekele's 1:53 in a 12:53?

It depends on who you're a fan of.

It doesn't depend on who you are a fan of. Bekele's performance is clearly better. Farah ran that fresh. Bekele ran it after leading laps (something Farah never does), after heats of the 5000, and after running a 26:49 with the second half sub 13.

You really think those performances are equal?

ventolin^3 wrote:

that is nonsense

Asbel started with a 53-high in his 3'26.6

on your basis, he shouda run 3'24+ !!!

It's not just on my basis. It's on your basis as well. Just a few posts above this one, you said

ventolin^3 wrote:

that offers ~ 0.7s/lap

Kiprop ran the last ~1.5 laps of the 1500m by himself undrafted, so that equals 1.5 * .7 = 1.05 seconds. Using that, you would get 3:26.6-1.05 = 3:25.55. That's without correcting for uneven pacing of which you usually subtract 1-2 seconds. So that means (using your own methods), you think Kiprop could have run as fast as 3:23+ that day.

Again, that's the number using YOUR methods. Are you arguing with yourself and me at the same time?

Paull wrote:

Les wrote:

Mo Farah's last two laps in his 12:53 5k in Monaco 2011 was 1:53.

Which is better? Farah's 1:53 in a 12:53 or Bekele's 1:53 in a 12:53?

It depends on who you're a fan of.

It doesn't depend on who you are a fan of. Bekele's performance is clearly better. Farah ran that fresh. Bekele ran it after leading laps (something Farah never does), after heats of the 5000, and after running a 26:49 with the second half sub 13.

You really think those performances are equal?

The OP did not specify fresh/not fresh, that is you bringing those qualifications to the discussion. The OP just specified numbers. In any case, Farah could probably close a championship (non-fresh) 12:53 5k in 1:53 but I doubt Bekele could close any 5k in 1:48.

Why bother arguing at all. Bekele was more juiced, so he could close in even more outrageous times (off fast paces, what's more) than the less egregiously juiced Farah, who can only do it off slower paces.

Of course, all the African 'genetic marvels' would look a lot less marvellous if they weren't doped to the gills.

no

he got good enough drafting to 1k

i don't quibble with near-enough drafting as that gets crap here

Asbel didn't get too close to drafter & it was a nonsense trying for a 6'3 guy getting much drafting off some runt who looked 5'8 / 5'9

it is all about closeness, duration & surface-area of drafter

the "perfect" template is coe in firenze with the runt at ~ 5'8 drafting limpet-tight behind a 6'3 billy :

yes

for coe-firenze

not Asbel-runt

yes

but Asbel likely didn't get close to that much loss of drafting

albeit having a runt drafting him offers conjecture

no

i think he has 3'25-flat/low in him in a perfect race looking at above

no

you have no clue about :

- extent of drafting

- size of drafter / draftee

- duration of drafting, which shoud be to bell in a 1500

Asbel maybe capable of 3'25-flat/low in perfect race, drafted to bell "coe-firenze" by a giant, maybe 6'5 drafter

you offer no serious argument

Les wrote:

The OP did not specify fresh/not fresh, that is you bringing those qualifications to the discussion. The OP just specified numbers. In any case, Farah could probably close a championship (non-fresh) 12:53 5k in 1:53 but I doubt Bekele could close any 5k in 1:48.

Wow you just can't admit when you're wrong and you avoid answering the question. I'd like to see you and Ventolin go at it.

runthenight wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

how on earth coud kennster cope in last 4 laps of a slow 5k knowing he's got a 3'27-flat guy on his shoulder ???

He coped with Lagat...

no

he got slaughtered here by bernie who was likely in only 3'28-low/mid shape here

mo is likely in 3'27-flat shape currently...