Seriously.
3:28 in the 1500. Closing a 5000 with 1:48. This guy has to have a 1:44 in him minimum. Imagine a 1:44 800 guy with a 2:08 marathon PR!
Seriously.
3:28 in the 1500. Closing a 5000 with 1:48. This guy has to have a 1:44 in him minimum. Imagine a 1:44 800 guy with a 2:08 marathon PR!
I agree
Aouita is considered the man with the best range ever now, I'd say.
WR in the 1500 and 5000.
Olympic medal in the 800 and a #1 world ranking in the 10,000.
Farah's PRs are better in everything except for the 800, but he does have the marathon under his belt that Aouita never ran.
Aouita probably had better sauce with fewer things they were testing for.
Star wrote:
Farah's PRs are better in everything except for the 800,
You better check this.
Aouita vs. Farah in Olympic events:
800 1:43.86 - 1:48.69
1500 3:29.46 - 3:28.81
5000 12:58.9 - 12:53.11
10,000 27:26.11 - 26:46.57
Marathon DNR - 2:08:21
You can pick some non-championship distances where Aouita has a better PR outside of the 800.
Star wrote:
Aouita vs. Farah in Olympic events:
800 1:43.86 - 1:48.69
1500 3:29.46 - 3:28.81
5000 12:58.9 - 12:53.11
10,000 27:26.11 - 26:46.57
Marathon DNR - 2:08:21
You can pick some non-championship distances where Aouita has a better PR outside of the 800.
Farah's 1500 and 2 mile are also superior on conversion to Aouita's mile and 3000.
Farah has demonstrated better range.
Star wrote:
I agree
Aouita is considered the man with the best range ever now, I'd say.
WR in the 1500 and 5000..
How are Geb, Bekele, and Kipchoge not in this discussion? Particularly because Farah has NO world records at all. Geb for example set records in the half marathon and marathon and has the 2nd fastest (?) indoor 1500 ever and mention a world title at 1500. #1 at the 1500 and the marathon?
Farah's not even close. Aouita is closer but Geb still has better range I think.
I hang out on here too much, so:
In before Bad Wigins talks about how Augustine Choge has GOAT range.
Aouita ran a steeple.
The OP said Farah needed a fast 800 and I agreed.
Geb has an indoor 1500m title and set a marathon WR.
He is certainly in the conversation.
But Farah's 1500 is faster and a 1:44 or better 800 would split his range wider than Geb.
Star wrote:
The OP said Farah needed a fast 800 and I agreed.
Geb has an indoor 1500m title and set a marathon WR.
He is certainly in the conversation.
But Farah's 1500 is faster and a 1:44 or better 800 would split his range wider than Geb.
How would that make Farah's range better than Geb's? Geb was #1 at the 1500 and marathon. Farah would have to be #1 at the 800 and half marathon to have equally wide range.
Regarding a faster 1500, Geb ran that 1500m INDOORS.
Farah actually needs to be the fastest at SOMETHING. Geb, Bekele, and Aouita all had great range while also holding world records.
Gebrselassie:
1:49.35 (indoor)
3:31.76 (indoor)
4:52 2K (indoor)
7:25.09 (and 7:26.86 indoor, plus 8:01.08 2 mile)
12:39.36
26:22.75
58:55
2:03:59
Consider that most of those times were world records, or very close (like the indoor 1500) to the world record, when he ran them.
I'd guess based on his indoor 1500, in his prime he could have been sub 3:30 outdoor, take his indoor 800 mark together with that, and it's reasonable to assume he could have ran in the 1:46 range outdoors.
As also mentioned ... Bekele's range is better as well. Just because Farah is faster on the quick end of the spectrum (3:28.8) doesn't make his overall range better.
It's very impressive, no doubt, but still behind the likes of Aoutia, Geb, and Bekele. Choge is very good too ... 1:44 to 12:53, but no attempts at the 10K, much less a half or marathon.
Aouita is crazy though ... 1:43 up to 27:26 (just 12 sec off the WR at the time).
Also, I seriously doubt Farah could run a 1:44 ... much less "at least" a 1:44. His close at the end of a super, super slow 5K most likely isn't much faster than his all-out ability at the same distance.
I might give him a 1:46-high, 1:47 for the 8.
Being the fastest at one thing is not required for "great range" and is actually the opposite of range, it's being really really good at a singular thing.
The fact that Farah ran 3:28.8 in 1500m and 2:08 in the marathon in a 9 month span is, by all measures, incredible range that has NEVER been matched, by anyone, ever. Not to mention the 2:08 was his debut.
Geb's 3:31.76 indoor 1500m is incredibly impressive, but it came four years before his marathon debut (which was an also impressive 2:06:36).
Aouita is a self outed drug pusher, this disqualified him from any GOAT discussion.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=trackandfield&id=2336602
The Dingo^3 wrote:
Being the fastest at one thing is not required for "great range" and is actually the opposite of range, it's being really really good at a singular thing.
The fact that Farah ran 3:28.8 in 1500m and 2:08 in the marathon in a 9 month span is, by all measures, incredible range that has NEVER been matched, by anyone, ever. Not to mention the 2:08 was his debut.
Geb's 3:31.76 indoor 1500m is incredibly impressive, but it came four years before his marathon debut (which was an also impressive 2:06:36).
So what? No one else has tried to do that in a 9 month span other than Farah (these other guys were/are busy racing frequently and trying to win the diamond league focused on their events unlike Farah). I don't see what's so impressive about that time frame. If he did it in the same week, then it would be significant, but 9 months is plenty of time to shift your fitness to a different event (1500 and marathon training/fitness really doesn't have to be that different anyway. They can both be achieved with a high LT. See Lydiard).
Runners do this every year in the NCAA. XC then 9 months later track. You think Centrowitz was in 3:35 shape during October at Oregon? Or likewise with Wheating and his 800m ability?
Don't be fooled by NOP's distractions, gimmicks, mind tricks, and marketing.
The Diamond League wasn't around when Geb and Aouita were racing, and Farah has frequently raced in the DL over the passed few years, and won basically every time he raced.
Let's put it this way, there's been no 3:28.8 1500m runner who could turn around and run a 2:08 marathon 9 months later. And conversely, there's been no 2:08 marathoner who could run 3:28.8 9 months prior to it regardless of their training.
In regards to your NCAA argument, a 1500 and XC 10k is way closer than a 1500m and a marathon. Plus, how many 1500m specialists in the NCAA do well in XC? Centro was 10th as a senior. Wheating was 75th as a senior. They're racing NCAA athletes... Try throwing those guys into a marathon, it wouldn't be pretty.
I don't like Farah. I don't like the NOP. But it's hilarious how desperate some people are to deny Farah credit when he's clearly earned it.
Don't be BLINDED by NOPs distractions, gimmicks, mind tricks, and marketing.
sandybeaver wrote:
I hang out on here too much, so:
In before Bad Wigins talks about how Augustine Choge has GOAT range.
Augustine Choge has GOAT range.
If the Diamond League wasn't around when Geb was racing, then explain to me how he won the league title at least once.
Your "let's put it this way" makes no sense. No one on that level has TRIED to do a quick turnaround within 9 months so you can't claim that they couldn't have.
Your reply to my NCAA argument is missing the point (as well as being incorrect). It doesn't matter what the times were that Centrowitz and Wheating were running. The point is the shift in fitness that is possible with 9 months of training change.
I'm not denying Farah credit, I just don't think he has the best range (he's certainly not far from the best, but he's not the best). I also don't think that 9 months is impressive. It's like the "how much can you bench press and what is your mile time" threads on here. Big difference between simultaneous ability and having months of years of separation between PRs.
Farah's 3:28 = loss. Nine months later, 2:08 marathon = loss. Nine months later 3:29 = loss. That's three "wide-range" losses, with zero wins. Not GOAT worthy.
his 3'28.9 was essentially undrafted, worth 3'27-flat with pacing to bell
he definitely couda gone 26'25 / 26'30 this year
someone try 3'27 with 26'25 / 26'30 for 400 / 800 / 3k / 5k
( i can't do them from this computer - i'll do it later if no one has )