Nop200 wrote:
"David Rudisha noted he is running 300m repeats in 33 seconds and with no pain! #adidas"
https://twitter.com/RunBlogRun/status/634241399697895424Is this for real?
This sounds like psychological warfare when the training may not going well. He may be trying to psych out the competition. When training is going very well, usually you don't have leaks like this.
we have all been looking for a fully healthy David Rudisha for almost three years now. It would be fantastic to see him in top form again and it sounds like he is getting there now.
I'm surprised everyone thinks this is so noteworthy.
Rudisha could easily run a few 300M in 33s.
sub3over40 wrote:
Nop200 wrote:"David Rudisha noted he is running 300m repeats in 33 seconds and with no pain! #adidas"
https://twitter.com/RunBlogRun/status/634241399697895424Is this for real?
This sounds like psychological warfare when the training may not going well. He may be trying to psych out the competition. When training is going very well, usually you don't have leaks like this.
This. Even if he *could* do a workout like this, why *would* he do a workout like this? Even 3 or 4 with full recovery would be extremely tough for him at his best. I guess like others have said, if he did 2 in 33.9 with a rolling start, then I guess that's possible. But why do such a workout? I was always more of a distance guy, so maybe I just don't understand 800 training. Can anyone explain the purpose of a workout liike that: 2x300 with full recovery all out.
because he said his speed - knee-pain is the problem
whenever he tries to find speed late on, his knee starts hurting bad
to mimic fast pace with some 300 reps & assumedly pain-free at end of it means ideally he won't fear his knee hurting-up in last 50 / 100 of the 800
ventolin^3 wrote:
because he said his speed - knee-pain is the problem
I am sure David never said that. Unlike you, he speaks English.
Link wrote:
? I was always more of a distance guy, so maybe I just don't understand 800 training. Can anyone explain the purpose of a workout liike that: 2x300 with full recovery all out.
Works on top speed and speed endurance. If you had done workouts like that, you would have been faster.
Ifif wrote:
Link wrote:? I was always more of a distance guy, so maybe I just don't understand 800 training. Can anyone explain the purpose of a workout liike that: 2x300 with full recovery all out.
Works on top speed and speed endurance. If you had done workouts like that, you would have been faster.
No, it really only works on speed endurance, but that is very important for the 400 and 800. I can assure you the top 800 runners are doing true speed development work too. For example speed ladders, falling start 60s, flying 30s etc.
Also, no need to attack Link. You don't know anything about him, and he's just asking a question, wanting to learn more about the sport, which is the point of this website.
Ben Ami wrote:
Amel Tuka, with 35 on 300, will crush them.
And then he will get his medal taken away for having the highest doping levels in the history of the world.
Repeat 300s were our most common workout. My best standing start 400 was only a 52. We would do 6x300 with 2 min rest and the last couple were always under 40, the last one often under 38 (rolling start).
I know there is a big difference between 38 and 33, but there is also a big difference between small town American 800 runners and the world record holder.
[quote]runnerdnerd wrote:
I can assure you the top 800 runners are doing true speed development work too. For example speed ladders, falling start 60s, flying 30s etc.
For some reason I can't picture Amos doing any of those. But I don't know, maybe he is.
I know a 1:49 guy who would run 35s in training off a rolling start. It doesn't surprise that Rudisha would hit 33
yea, I was a 48/150 guys and could hit 34 with rolling start. 33 for Rudisha shouldn't be that hard.
runnerdnerd wrote:
Ifif wrote:Works on top speed and speed endurance. If you had done workouts like that, you would have been faster.
No, it really only works on speed endurance, but that is very important for the 400 and 800. I can assure you the top 800 runners are doing true speed development work too. For example speed ladders, falling start 60s, flying 30s etc.
Also, no need to attack Link. You don't know anything about him, and he's just asking a question, wanting to learn more about the sport, which is the point of this website.
No, that pace is fast enough and the rest is long enough that it would work on top speed also. So like I said, speed endurance and top speed. If the rest was a little shorter then it's be more for speed endurance, but it isn't. It's a mix of the two.
Also, I wasn't attacking Link. You distance guys are so defensive and insecure that anytime someone suggests something to you, you get offended and defensive. I do in fact know something about him because he told us. He said that he trained as a distance runner and isn't familiar with the training for shorter distances.
What I said is true. If he had done workouts like that then he would have been faster. That's not an attack or an insult.
Ifif wrote:
runnerdnerd wrote:No, it really only works on speed endurance, but that is very important for the 400 and 800. I can assure you the top 800 runners are doing true speed development work too. For example speed ladders, falling start 60s, flying 30s etc.
Also, no need to attack Link. You don't know anything about him, and he's just asking a question, wanting to learn more about the sport, which is the point of this website.
No, that pace is fast enough and the rest is long enough that it would work on top speed also. So like I said, speed endurance and top speed. If the rest was a little shorter then it's be more for speed endurance, but it isn't. It's a mix of the two.
Also, I wasn't attacking Link. You distance guys are so defensive and insecure that anytime someone suggests something to you, you get offended and defensive. I do in fact know something about him because he told us. He said that he trained as a distance runner and isn't familiar with the training for shorter distances.
What I said is true. If he had done workouts like that then he would have been faster. That's not an attack or an insult.
You don't know what the hell you're talking about, and if you actually knew anything about sprinting you would not be so confused about what is actually a pretty well known workout style. Even Ben Johnson did this type of workout. And you won't face up to being called on it, which makes you look more like an ignoramus. Runnerdnerd is right, speed development is much shorter length. This would be 30-60 meters at 100% for sprinters, but distance people don't accelerate as fast, so it's more like 60-80 for distance people (Salazar is known to have had Centro to 80's for speed).
To answer Link's question, workouts like this--long intervals with long or full recovery--are for lactate tolerance. And the required rest here is about 30 minutes. Shorter workouts like 3X3X300 with 1-2 minutes at 800 pace or 8X400 with 1 minute at mile pace are more for lactate buffering, but they don't totally stress the ability to tolerate max lactate in a high intensity race. This type of workout is sometimes used by 400 and 800 coaches just before peaking.
If there are any high school athletes reading this, workouts like 3X300 with full recovery result in VERY HIGH LACTATE during the second repetition and can damage the hypothalmus or brainstem in younger people. Don't do this younger than 17-18.
coach d wrote:
You don't know what the hell you're talking about, and if you actually knew anything about sprinting you would not be so confused about what is actually a pretty well known workout style. Even Ben Johnson did this type of workout. And you won't face up to being called on it, which makes you look more like an ignoramus. Runnerdnerd is right, speed development is much shorter length. This would be 30-60 meters at 100% for sprinters, but distance people don't accelerate as fast, so it's more like 60-80 for distance people (Salazar is known to have had Centro to 80's for speed).
To answer Link's question, workouts like this--long intervals with long or full recovery--are for lactate tolerance. And the required rest here is about 30 minutes. Shorter workouts like 3X3X300 with 1-2 minutes at 800 pace or 8X400 with 1 minute at mile pace are more for lactate buffering, but they don't totally stress the ability to tolerate max lactate in a high intensity race. This type of workout is sometimes used by 400 and 800 coaches just before peaking.
If there are any high school athletes reading this, workouts like 3X300 with full recovery result in VERY HIGH LACTATE during the second repetition and can damage the hypothalmus or brainstem in younger people. Don't do this younger than 17-18.
No.
I know exactly what I am talking about. Speed development doesn't just stop because you do intervals longer than 30-60 meters. Workouts of 30-60 meters are PRIMARILY top speed development. That doesn't mean that workouts with longer intervals (here, 300m) are useless for speed development. It just means they aren't optimal. Likewise, 300s with full rest at that pace aren't OPTIMAL for speed endurance. This workout works on both speed development and speed endurance without being optimal for either but it's a good way to work on both at the same time. If Ben Johnson did this workout, then that strengthens my argument not yours. Good job arguing against yourself.
Like I said before, this workout is a mix of speed development and speed endurance.
Once again, you don't understand enough to understand that you don't understand. First of all, a guy capable of running 46-flat (Rudisha) is going to need to be able to run a 200 in 21.5, which is somewhat faster than he ran the 300s in. A 400 runner may push (Clyde Hart's term) the first 80m at 90% speed, but that is not 100%. So in no part of Rudisha's 300 is he really running at max velocity.
Second, because of the heavy lactate load from the first 300, he would not be capable reaching max velocity in the second 300. So you only get 20-30 meters at full speed even if you accelerate to maximum velocity in the first one.
Maximum velocity can only be maintained for TWO seconds. The reason we do workouts like 6X50-60 or 6X30 flying (or 4-6X60m flying for 400 people) with 10 minutes rest is that we can do 6 of them.
One 30m at 100% in not training; That's a warmup.
coach d wrote:If there are any high school athletes reading this, workouts like 3X300 with full recovery result in VERY HIGH LACTATE during the second repetition and can damage the hypothalmus or brainstem in younger people. Don't do this younger than 17-18.
eh ??
i assume this is a joke ?!
you expect them to have a CVA if they do, or repeat sub-max attempts lead them to have frequent TIAs with multi-infarct damage - > pre-senile dementia & end up as morons ?!
coach d wrote:
Once again, you don't understand enough to understand that you don't understand. First of all, a guy capable of running 46-flat (Rudisha) is going to need to be able to run a 200 in 21.5, which is somewhat faster than he ran the 300s in. A 400 runner may push (Clyde Hart's term) the first 80m at 90% speed, but that is not 100%. So in no part of Rudisha's 300 is he really running at max velocity.
.
No.
I didn't say Rudisha was running at max velocity in his 300. You completely made this up.
You're arguing with arguments that I never said. That is the problem here, not me not knowing what I do or don't understand. Learn to read and stop making things up. Also, you're wrong about Rudisha's 400m ability, no? Hasn't he run faster than that?
Nijel Amos has done 300 in 33 (TT) plus 1:18 600. So 33 is right in line
12/ Can you tell us the best workout you have done until today ?
Time Trial 300m in 33″ + 600m in 1’18
full article from 2010
https://runafricadotcom.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/runafrica-interview-nijel-amos/