If you are going to compare how one did against his peers then you would have to say Herb Elliot is the greatest miler ever. He never lost a 1500/mile race, smashed the world records and won the gold medal in his only Olympic Games.
If you are going to compare how one did against his peers then you would have to say Herb Elliot is the greatest miler ever. He never lost a 1500/mile race, smashed the world records and won the gold medal in his only Olympic Games.
Morceli - 7 #1s, 1500m/mile WR, Olympic/World Gold
El Guerrouj - 6 #1s, 1500m/mile WR, Olympic silver/World gold
Elliot - WR 1500m/mile, Olympic gold in WR time, undefeated
Coe - WR 1500m/mile, double Olympic gold
Scott - 11 Top 10s, 136 sub-4s, 8 sub-3:50s
Walker - 3 #1s, WR 1500m/mile, Olympic gold, first 100 sub-4s
Ovett - 3 #1s, WR 1500m/mile, Olympic bronze
Snell - 3 #1s, WR mile, Olympic gold 1500m
Coghlan(i) - sub-3:50 indoors, Chairman of the Boards
Bullshit. I was ready to watch this thread go along and shut up because I had already posted a couple of times, but your "you Americans" crap pissed me off.
Personally, I don't want to be lumped with everyone else or be generalized about - I don't doubt that most of the other posters here feel the same way. I've been a fan of running for a long time and a good portion of my favorite runners have been from other nations. I could care less where "the best" comes from because I just enjoy watching whoever it may be running well.
I have to admit that in the last ten years I have followed individual runners less and less because it seems that for every Kenyan that pops a great time 5 more beat that time the next week.
If we are going to settle this once and for all, then we need to stage a handicap race and bring all of the world record holders from the best 85 years or so and let them go at it. Slowest record holder starts first and the thing continues according to time differential until the current world record holder starts. Ideally, everyone would be spread out across the track with 100 to go........and may day, I'm an American and I don't give a shit about who would win - hopefully it would just be the best guy.
May Day
Don't get all anti-American because some of us don't think El G is the best ever. I'm American and I happen to think Coe is the best. El G is certainly the fastest ever, the best time trial runner (I consider rabbited races time trials). However, he can't get it done in the Olympic final (even with his countryman as a rabbit), which is THE race. To me the best miler is the person that you would pick in a non-rabbited race if all the greats were still alive, young, and given two years or so to train. I think Morceli, Eliot, and Coe are the top three because they could win off any pace. Of course, Eliot never lost, but his career was also very short. I imagine several of the runners mentioned in this thread had unbeaten streaks nearly as long as his, but they kept going and lost some. In the end, I think it's Coe first, and Morceli second. They have the best kicks off of fast paces. Coe was a killer with an unmatchable kick and superb tactical awareness
Too true about Coe being a killer. Presonally I have a problem with the win/loss records that we try to compare from different eras, since it is abundantly clear the dodging that would happen with Coe and Ovett (who i never liked). Instead, I agree with looking at the long term dominance and how dthey ran when it counted against their peers in the big races. If we\'re going to agree that perhaps we need to pick the few guys that share the pinnacle, then Coe is one of them. Morcelli should be there, and I have a soft spot for Lovelock, who was a phoenomenal runner, and should have been the first under 4 minutes if he had had modern training methods to work with. How do you choose between Elliot and Snell? Hard to say really. Snell was certainly a great 800 guy (as was Coe) of a totally different generation. Elliott is just a wild card.
I\'m not totally convinced that El G is totally clean, I just hope that he is.
I think way back in 1997 there was an internet poll about this, either on an Australian website or on the Track and Field mailing list. I think Elliot got the nod over Morceli barely. But that was in 1997.
It all boils down to what you consider criteria for being called the best (well duh). I think trackhead has it right - number of medals won, what type they are, and years of dominance. If you look at these Morceli beats out ElG because he was at the top one year longer and had that Olympic gold. Nevermind the fact Morceli during his peak (93-95) normally put 2-3 seconds up on the rest of the field whether it was a WR record race or a tactical affair.
Coe has those 2 Olympic golds but the rest of his career (which I think you have to consider) was spotty in places whether due to injury, running the 800, or the fact that there were guys such as Cram and Aouita out there as well. Guys like Morceli and ElG have 40+ win streaks to their credit and Elliot was undefeated which I think raises them above Coe despite having an extra gold, but that is just the way I rank things. I mean, how many would say hands-down that Marie-Josie Perec should be named the greatest 400m runner of all time because she got the the two golds in 92 and 96?
I think it comes down to Elliot and Morceli which means you have to decide what is more important - a short undefeated career with great success (Elliot) or the longest dominating career ever with only ~7 losses in 1500/Mile in nearly 100 races (1990-96). Both are pretty incredible.
If anyone gets their hands on the book "The Milers" there's a great story on Elliot telling how he was kind of burned out in the middle of his career but was still racing. He would be smoking cigarettes everyday and running sporadically since he really didn't care but when he toed the line he would somehow still eek out a victory. One of the guys who raced him during this period I think actually retired because he felt there was no way he could beat Elliot after he saw this spectacle. Anyway, I think that's how the story goes...
I love these threads!
I also love the word GREAT. Who is the GREATEST miler? It implies something more, something special that sets apart the best and the very best. If we ask 'who is the fastest?' The answer is clearly ELG. If we ask 'who is the best?' Then we can still argue for ELG. If we ask 'who is the most successful?' things start to get a little more complicated but there are still facts and figures to refer to. We can also ask 'who is your favourite miler?' For me the answer is Eamon Coghlan.
The word GREAT adds a different dimension. Somehow we need to look beyond the times, the records and the medals. Some runners have that something little extra about them. How do we define it? The Finnish have a word for it 'SISU'.
Steve Scott ran loads of fantastic times but he's not the greatest miler ever. Roger Bannister broke the four-minute mile but he's still not the greatest miler ever. And what about the 1988 Olympic Gold Medallist Peter Rono - I mean where the hell did he come from, and where did he disappear to???
So, anyway, most of you know about the times and the records and the medals. Do you recognise the aura of a truly GREAT athlete? These are the guys that in my view are the GREATEST ever milers.
1. Coe
2. Elliot
3. Morceli
4. ELG
5. Walker
6. Snell
7. Ovett
8. Cram
9. Ryun
10. Aouita
Yes it is sad what happened to Jazy later on in his life - he is dreadfully overweight now.
What Kip Keino - no one has brought his name up and he had some terrific mile races - although overall he lost out to Jim more than he beat him.
a very famous track statistician named Michael Rabinowich (uh oh, Catman disapproves, a zionist !) took the Top 10 list for every year since 1900 and gave 10 points for #1, 9 points for #2. Obviously, this type of scoring system favors longevity, which is why Elliott is no where to be found, even though I personally think undefeated is worth quite a bit.
anyway,
1. Hicham El Guerrouj, 84 (1994-2002)
2. Noureddine Morceli, 79 (1990-1999)
3. Kip Keino, 71 (1965-1972)
4. Steve Cram, 66 (1981-1990)
5. Glenn Cunningham, 62 (1932-1940)
6. Arne Andersson, 61 (1939-1945)
Coe has 52 points. Of course, using this same system for the Olympics reveals:
1. Sebastian Coe, 20
1. Steve Cram, 20
3. Kip Keino, 19
3. Fermin Cacho, 19
5. Luigi Beccali, 18
6. Glenn Cunningham, 16
Morceli has 14 points.
bazza, like your list, to a degree. How could you leave Roger B out of your top 10! Oh, my.
My final answer remains John Walker. What I'd give for a pic of JW and Jack Daniels standing next to each other. Do I need to explain that one?
Okay how about:
Greatest miling moment : Roger Bannister sub-4
Greatest Indoor miler: Eamon Coghlan
Bravest, gutsiest, toughest miler: Peter Elliot
Unluckiest miler: Jim Ryun
Most obscure best miler: Jazy
Most talented miler: Ovett
Best mile race: Dream Mile, Oslo 1981
Most consistently great miler: Scott
Greatest underachiever: nominations???
Hooray for May Day!
Not because I agree with him, but because his post resulted in a number of decent responses.
?Greatest.? No kidding; means lots of things, and different things to different people. If it?s who comes through in the big one on the big day, it gets narrow pretty fast. (Josef Barthel, anyone?) If it?s all about setting the world record, does setting it a lot make you great? (Hagg? Andersen?) If it?s all about racing, and winning the most, does that mean Elliot, or people who won the most international races regardless of losses? (El G? Morcelli?)
Opinions are interesting; arguing vehemently with somebody structuring their criteria differently than you do is just silly.
Finally, somebody has raised the names of Cunningham and Andersen.
mexican cousin.......
we just have a difference of opinon here.....to me when you break the world record not only did you win the race that day but you just beat everyone that has ever laced up a pair of shoes and ran that event ever!
i understand the points about the different surfaces believe me as a wheelchair track guy the surface we compete on means everything. but i just hold WR holders on a different level then everyone else
I like the statistical analysis that BillCarr posted.
It is a cummulative effect of rankings that rewards longevity at being at or near the top.
El G is rewarded for the years that he was ranked below #1.
Elliot's career was not prolific.
Coe did not dominate his competition year after year.
There needs to be an Olympic factor however, leaving room for more subjectivity.
Is Emmitt Smith better than Walter Payton because he has more career yards?
No statistics here, just throwing in my .02 after looking through the thread. I think it's Coe, the 2 olympic golds are what puts him over the top in my opinion.
As I mentioned earlier I go with Coe - however ELG still has the chance to establish himself as the geatest ever. A 1500m gold in Athens would elevate him to top spot.
based on who I think would win a non-rabitted race with all runners in their prime:
1. Morceli
2. Coe
3. El Guerrouj
these are the three best in my opionion based on WRs, win streaks, and gold medals, so then it comes down to who would beat who... EL G would not beat the other two in a tactical race IMO.
I am the best miler ever. I bustet Crawford's ass and next I'll go to work on El G.
the rushing yards thing is different.....emmitt smith also has the most carries in nfl history to break the rushing record....yards per carry i feel is more impressive and that would be jim brown as he has the highest yards per carry.....and is still top ten in alot of categories and he only played 9 years
Herb Elliott. No other miler can match Herb's achievements. Criteria? Well, Cordner Nelson when writing his book about the greatest all-time track and field athletes said that the criteria was 1) set world record. 2) Win world title 3) Have an aura of invincibility. Well, let's look at number 1. Well, in 1958 Herb broke the 1500m and mile records by the biggest ever margin. 2) Herb won the Olympic title in a world record and by the biggest ever margin. 3 ) Well, Herb was never ever beaten in his senior career over 1500m/mile. It goes without saying that no other 1500m/miler comes close to that list of achievement.
Des Linden: "The entire sport" has changed since she first started running Boston.
Ryan Eiler, 3rd American man at Boston, almost out of nowhere
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion