Drug cheats in loca road races

joho wrote:

As people age they are going to require some meds to stay 'healthy'. If my doc prescribed me testosterone I wouldn't quit racing. I really doubt it would make much of a difference in my master's standing in the local running scene anyway.

There is no way in hell I would seek out a prescription just so I could run faster. It would have to be a legit medical / health issue.

That's the point. Your doctor will only prescribe Androgel, a lifestyle medication, if you b!tch and complain about low sex drive, fatigue and losing muscle mass, normal things to happen as you age.

Hypoandrogenism of age (low testosterone) is a naturally occurring phenomenon. Declaring it a "health issue" and that Androgel is "required to stay healthy" is a joke allowing 40-50somethings who aren't quite what they were in their 20s-30s to effectively dope.

Kind of like giving a testosterone booster to a teenager. And who would do that?

Talk to the guy face to face or send him an email and show him that testosterone is cheating. There's a chance he doesn't know that just because something is prescribed by a doctor, that doesn't mean its ok to use. If he doesn't care and keeps using it, then he obviously is a low character individual, and typically those kinds of people eventually get into trouble. He'll have to live with the fact knowing that he is a cheater.

Chances are this person knows exactly what he is doing, and that he can easily get away with it. Think about the culture of the state that he lives in. People will believe a lot of crazy stuff.

doping dopers get out wrote:

That's the point. Your doctor will only prescribe Androgel, a lifestyle medication, if you b!tch and complain about low sex drive, fatigue and losing muscle mass, normal things to happen as you age.

Hypoandrogenism of age (low testosterone) is a naturally occurring phenomenon. Declaring it a "health issue" and that Androgel is "required to stay healthy" is a joke allowing 40-50somethings who aren't quite what they were in their 20s-30s to effectively dope.

Kind of like giving a testosterone booster to a teenager. And who would do that?

It is so easy to sit behind a computer and accuse people on medications of only wanting/needing them because they are bitching and complaining. What if the guy has a legitimate testosterone issue? Should he stop racing altogether? Give up something he loves so that the OP has a better shot at winning the local turkey trot age group award?

At a certain point it just doesn't matter anymore, you know? Maybe the guy is a total douche and the OP is just sick of it, but who really cares about the 40+ 5k award?

Chances are that he would still be winning without the Androgel, right? Does it really do that much?

My advice to the OP is to just train a little harder and beat the guy. If you can't do that, you aren't going to beat him if he goes clean. Better yet, just don't worry about it and chuckle about how sad his life must be at 40+ that he literally cheats and dopes for stupid local 5k trophies. Be happy that you're not that shallow.

Moo Goo wrote:

He is competing in masters division at local races. Does it even matter? Seriously, nobody cares about those stupid age group trophies. You will be a better person for not caring about meaningless trinket.

Seems like those masters finishing ahead of you have got you riled up

Masters racing is pretty arbitrary. When I hit 40, there was a gap between me and a number of runners in the 35-39 age group. I was running well for a master and for not being much of a scholastic/collegiate runner and was cleaning up at local road races. Two years later, a bunch of really fast guys move up and I am done with winning masters division at races.

Point is that by the time you turn 40, you really aren't competing that much anymore. Everyone is as good as they are going to get. Guys who were faster than me when I was under 40 were still faster than me when we all moved up. Same thing for slower guys. We are just too old to improve much. It is really more about holding on to decent times for as long as we can.

I have raced against guys from out of town who were clearly using something. I ran a 10k against a very muscular 45 year old. I ran 36 flat and the muscle man ran about 30 seconds faster. I looked up his times and it was a 2:30 pr for him. He only started turning up at races when he was in his early 40s. The guy clearly was doing low-T replacement therapy and other masters runners I know had good info that this was the case from runners in his area.

But it did not matter to me because I never really felt like a masters win was really a win. We just run as fast as we can and the race results are just a confirmation of who happened to show up.

What to do with.... wrote:

What do you do when a local elite runner in a community takes testosterone and then goes and cleans up the local road race prizes? There isn't ways local road races are going to regulate that, however it's obviously cheating and the 40+ year old runner admits to it for "health purposes." He had been on it for 2 years after collapsing during a half marathons bc he tried an only greens diet (duh) and then tested slightly low for his testosterone levels. Som health nut doc wrote him a rx for testosterone and he has since tried going off it but couldn't perform the same and so he's just stayed on it. He trains hard and runs fast, but he's getting extra help. What do you do in this situation?

Train smarter, train harder and maybe you'll beat him next time. That's your answer.

"But it did not matter to me because I never really felt like a masters win was really a win. We just run as fast as we can and the race results are just a confirmation of who happened to show up."

Well said.

Okay, but... wrote:

What if the guy has a legitimate testosterone issue?

Simple - he can go get a TUE.

Okay, but... wrote:

Should he stop racing altogether? Give up something he loves so that the OP has a better shot at winning the local turkey trot age group award?

I guarantee you, the thing he "loves" isn't the racing, it's the winning. So yeah, he has to give that up unless he's willing to compete without banned help. Too bad. He's welcome to run solo time trials.

Yeah, the guy may well be able to get a TUE. Maybe he even has one but I'd bet doesn't even know there is such a thing, wouldn't want to go the trouble of finding out how to get one and doing what he needed to, or very possibly doesn't even know he's doing anything illegal. All of this is speculation and he could be planning all this in fine detail.

But I'm sort of in Precious Roy's camp here. I think mater's competition is a good thing and I'd love to get my knee and back sorted out so I can go and win a race award because everyone else in my age group is dead or in a home. But it's not the main event. And at some point as people age they may well benefit from drugs that mainly restore them to health and better functioning, genuinely, not as an excuse for taking a PED they really don't need to function.

It's a murky area. I don't think older people should be forced to choose between being able to function well and being able to race. I'd rather not lose to someone taking testosterone, legally or not. But I wouldn't get too worked up by it.

So how do you know that this person is doped?? Is it just an accusation or do you have some sort of proof? I'm a decent 50+ guy but I don't think all the guys that beat me are doped. They were better than I was when I was young and they are better now -- no surprise there really. Actually, I'm inspired to see guys older than me running strong and posting good age grade scores.

I'm in southern Mexico at altitude, there's a great running scene here. The locals, largely indigenous people, are darn good runners.

There's often money on offer at races, anywhere from 1000 pesos upwards of 5000 for a win ($66 - 300 US). Decent money here.

So I'm a "veterano", age group 50 - 59. When I see a guy run 16:03 over 5K in my group here, I have to laugh.

First, I spot maybe 15 - 20 seconds for the mile high altitude. So we have a 50+ guy running a sea level 15:40 5K. I figure there are two possibilities, or both at the same time: Lying about age, and doping.

Why do I laugh? You'd have to be a dope to be a doper at 50+, no matter how you slice it.

What percentage of Androgel users do you think have a genuine issue? 1%? 0.1%? It's a lifestyle drug for aging men who want a magic bullet to avoid natural changes. Period. Trust me, as a family doctor I've received the promotions, and the manufacturer isn't even talking about real hypogonadism. They want every man over 40 to have their testosterone checked regularly, and if someone reports a "symptom" (fatigue! decreased sex drive! slower recovery from workouts!) get them on Androgel as fast as their health plan will pay for it. No doubt we'll see an epidemic of heart attacks in these guys but oh well.

As for "if you can't beat him when he's doping you can't beat him clean"...what?

let the race directors know and let the guy know first that you have contacted them or are about to.

DC Wonk wrote:

So how do you know that this person is doped?? Is it just an accusation or do you have some sort of proof? I'm a decent 50+ guy but I don't think all the guys that beat me are doped. They were better than I was when I was young and they are better now -- no surprise there really. Actually, I'm inspired to see guys older than me running strong and posting good age grade scores.

Are you OK with guys in your age group getting TUEs?

I'd get rid of TUES altogether. If I lose a prize to someone taking, say testosterone, who I'd have beaten were he not taking testosterone, I lose my prize. To me it wouldn't really matter whether or not the guy has a piece of paper saying it's OK for him to take the stuff.

On the other hand, and this is where the age group thing seems murky, let's say you have someone getting chemotherapy and is being given EPO to counter his diminished red blood count. If I recall correctly, that's what EPO was created for and I'd be fine with someone racing and taking it for a legitimate medical reason. I know that's contradictory and that's why it's murky to me. I suppose the answer would involve creating a clear definition of "legitimate medical reason" and that's easier said than done.

Well said. I'm 52 and the very last thing I worry about is my testosterone levels.

People give all sorts of BS reasons why they aren't the same runners that they used to be, but the truth in most cases is that they get lazier as they get older.

You guys are throwing around the term TUE as if it is a slam dunk thing...to get granted an actual official TUE from USADA for Low T medication is extremely difficult as they are wise to the scam. It would require demonstrating you have an actual serious medical condition, not just a testosterone level that is lower than in your 20's but normal for a guy in his 50's. Otherwise what you're describing is just a note from your doctor, which really means nothing and in fact would be laughed at by USADA if you were ever tested positive by them.

Jon Orange wrote:

doping dopers get out wrote:

That's the point. Your doctor will only prescribe Androgel, a lifestyle medication, if you b!tch and complain about low sex drive, fatigue and losing muscle mass, normal things to happen as you age.

Hypoandrogenism of age (low testosterone) is a naturally occurring phenomenon. Declaring it a "health issue" and that Androgel is "required to stay healthy" is a joke allowing 40-50somethings who aren't quite what they were in their 20s-30s to effectively dope.

Kind of like giving a testosterone booster to a teenager. And who would do that?

Well said. I'm 52 and the very last thing I worry about is my testosterone levels.

People give all sorts of BS reasons why they aren't the same runners that they used to be, but the truth in most cases is that they get lazier as they get older.

But that is you. If there are guys in the their 40s showing symptoms, and I'm NOT just talking running, then I have no problem with them getting a prescription. Just like I have no problem with a diabetic being on diabetes drugs.

For the record, No I am not on testosterone. I enjoy doing road races but I don't care enough about who I beat and focus more on my personal times and doing my best. Taking a PED would totally defeat my entire reason for running in the first place. Also, the effects of PEDs on my long term health scare me.

I do know some fellow runners that I would not be surprised to learn are on it. They make running and races the focal point of their life and cherry pick races that they can win.

Dr. Would you expand on the comment about future heart attacks. Links? I don't doubt your opinion, but maybe you could save me and some others time looking into it. Thanks