Crazy men's pole vault final at NACAC. Everyone, including both U.S, no-heighted except for 1 guy from El Salvador!

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  • No Silver or Bronze
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 2:46am CDT
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    The winning height was only 4.7 meters. What were the two experienced U.S. vaulters (and Cuban) thinking when they skipped the initial 4-5 heights? Only two clearances of the bar made in the entire competition, both by the winner. It turns out he only needed one at the opening height.

    http://www.tiempodellegada.com/Results/2015/NACAC/

    Event 34 Men Pole Vault
    ================================================================
    Open Height: **** 4.55 meters **** (6)
    4.55 - 4.70 - 4.85 - 5.00 - 5.15 - 5.30 - 5.45 - 5.55 - 5.60 +5
    NACAC Champ: @ 5.15m 7/13/2007 Jose Montano, MEX
    Name Age Team Finals
    ================================================================
    Finals
    1 Natan A Rivera El Salvador 4.70m
    4.55 4.70 4.85
    O XO XXX
    -- Abbey J Alcon Dominican Republic NH
    4.55
    XXX
    -- Brad Walker United States NH
    5.30
    XXX
    -- Lázaro Eduardo Borges Cuba NH
    5.15
    XXX
    -- Pedro D Figueroa El Salvador NH
    4.55 4.70
    X XX
    -- Nick Mossberg United States NH
    5.15
    XXX
  • we know
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 2:50am CDT
    re: No Silver or Bronze
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    they are all doped and intentionally no heighted
  • inthepdx
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 11:47am CDT
    re: we know
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    I'm guessing they were jumping into a headwind, few things other than that can lead to such results.
  • webby
    registered
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 1:06pm CDT
    re: inthepdx
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    I thought this was going to be a thread about a pole vaulting event for crazy men. I was picturing a Monty Python skit with people running the wrong way, scurrying up vertical poles, swinging poles at judges . . .
  • wyjveyjv
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 1:11pm CDT
    re: No Silver or Bronze
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    The Steven Bradbury of pole vault.
  • No excuses for this
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 2:21pm CDT
    re: inthepdx
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    inthepdx wrote:

    I'm guessing they were jumping into a headwind, few things other than that can lead to such results.

    If conditions were not ideal then it would be dumb to pass on all of the lower heights.

    Everyone was out of the competition after 4.7 meters except for the Cuban and two Americans. Yet, all three passed at 4.85 and 5.0 meters. Brad Walker also passed at 5.15 meters. Clearing any of these heights would have assured at least the bronze medal, so it would have been well worth the effort of a warmup vault. What a waste of money sending these guys and the vault coach (if there was one) to this meet.
  • Served them right
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 2:40pm CDT
    re: No excuses for this
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    The arrogance of the three vaulters passing on heights which would have guaranteed them a medal resulted in a very fitting outcome. The vaulter from El Salvador probably never thought in his wildest dreams that he would win. He cleared only a few inches higher than the winner of the women's pole vault final.
  • polevaultpower
    registered
    4 years ago 08/09/2015 3:09pm CDT
    re: Served them right
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    I heard the wind shifted from a tail wind to head wind after warm ups, and it was raining.

    The vaulters who NH'd all came in lower than normal. It doesn't do you any good to come in several feet below normal, you're more likely to end up knocking off the bar for a stupid reason, like your pole knocking it off (normally their poles go under it). If the bar is 3 feet below normal, for an elite vaulter it can throw them off.

    I didn't watch the meet, but the height of the bar was likely not the issue. More likely than not, they ran through or bailed out on most of their attempts anyway.

    On a related note, that gives a 15'something vaulter from El Salvador an automatic spot in the World Championships...
  • qualifiying for worlds
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 4:04am CDT
    re: polevaultpower
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    Do the US winners of other events (Wheating? price?) get passes to the Worlds now?
  • Ben L Wrong
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 7:19am CDT
    re: polevaultpower
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    Excuses, excuses.

    I remember the 07' Pan Ams Pole Vault final in Rio, with more rain and more headwind (or crossed winds) than NACAC championships. And 4 vaulters cleared heights.
  • Jeff Wigand
    registered
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 7:26am CDT
    re: qualifiying for worlds
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    qualifiying for worlds wrote:

    Do the US winners of other events (Wheating? price?) get passes to the Worlds now?

    He, like all NACAC winners, is now considered to have made the standard for this year's World Championships.
  • Ben L Wrong
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 7:38am CDT
    re: Jeff Wigand
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    Jeff Wigand wrote:

    He, like all NACAC winners, is now considered to have made the standard for this year's World Championships.

    Only if they finished in the top 3 at USA's. This is the case (for example) of Riley Dolezal in the Javelin Throw.
  • Served them right
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 10:54am CDT
    re: Served them right
    Forum Index
    Served them right wrote:

    The arrogance of the three vaulters passing on heights which would have guaranteed them a medal resulted in a very fitting outcome. The vaulter from El Salvador probably never thought in his wildest dreams that he would win. He cleared only a few inches higher than the winner of the women's pole vault final.

    My use of the word "arrogance" was way to strong. What I meant was that the top three were so concerned about having a miss at a simple height that none of them cleared any height.
  • rupp-certified saladbar
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 10:59am CDT
    re: Ben L Wrong
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    Ben L Wrong wrote:

    Jeff Wigand wrote:

    He, like all NACAC winners, is now considered to have made the standard for this year's World Championships.

    Only if they finished in the top 3 at USA's. This is the case (for example) of Riley Dolezal in the Javelin Throw.



    "considered to have made the standard"
  • Ben L Wrong
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 12:47pm CDT
    re: rupp-certified saladbar
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    rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

    "considered to have made the standard"

    Made the standard is not equal to "made the team". I Guess. But I´m going to talk about that with Nick Symmonds.
  • runnerdnerd
    registered
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 1:30pm CDT
    re: polevaultpower
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    polevaultpower wrote:

    The vaulters who NH'd all came in lower than normal. It doesn't do you any good to come in several feet below normal, you're more likely to end up knocking off the bar for a stupid reason, like your pole knocking it off (normally their poles go under it). If the bar is 3 feet below normal, for an elite vaulter it can throw them off.

    Becca, I'd say in a case like this, with inclement-but-changing bad weather, you just pick up a smaller pole and do a 4 stride approach to secure a mark and podium placement.

    It kind of goes against the pole vault mindset, but as a decathlete, that is what I would have done. I find I can jump in really bad weather from a 4 stride and get in good vaults with almost no effect from the weather/wind, but getting back to a full approach I quickly start to become affected by the wind and rain.

    Half those guys with their NHs in this meet have videos on youtube of them jumping 16+ from a 3 or 4 stride. In my experience, those short approach jumps are something they can just "pull out" without needing to check their step, just pick up the pole and go. In this situation, could have gotten them the win.
  • Bring Back the 880
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 1:50pm CDT
    re: runnerdnerd
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    runnerdnerd wrote:

    polevaultpower wrote:

    The vaulters who NH'd all came in lower than normal. It doesn't do you any good to come in several feet below normal, you're more likely to end up knocking off the bar for a stupid reason, like your pole knocking it off (normally their poles go under it). If the bar is 3 feet below normal, for an elite vaulter it can throw them off.

    Becca, I'd say in a case like this, with inclement-but-changing bad weather, you just pick up a smaller pole and do a 4 stride approach to secure a mark and podium placement.

    It kind of goes against the pole vault mindset, but as a decathlete, that is what I would have done. I find I can jump in really bad weather from a 4 stride and get in good vaults with almost no effect from the weather/wind, but getting back to a full approach I quickly start to become affected by the wind and rain.

    Half those guys with their NHs in this meet have videos on youtube of them jumping 16+ from a 3 or 4 stride. In my experience, those short approach jumps are something they can just "pull out" without needing to check their step, just pick up the pole and go. In this situation, could have gotten them the win.


    You make a good point that a short run/small pole would be a decent strategy in very bad conditions, but even dialing in the right takeoff in weird winds can easily take all three attempts if you warmed up in more favorable conditions.

    The biggest thing with conditions becoming really crappy after warming up is that passing even higher might be a great strategy since what if the bad weather passes over? Then the guys that passed and didn't waste attempts in poor weather look really smart.
  • runnerdnerd
    registered
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 2:00pm CDT
    re: Bring Back the 880
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    Bring Back the 880 wrote:


    You make a good point that a short run/small pole would be a decent strategy in very bad conditions, but even dialing in the right takeoff in weird winds can easily take all three attempts if you warmed up in more favorable conditions.

    The biggest thing with conditions becoming really crappy after warming up is that passing even higher might be a great strategy since what if the bad weather passes over? Then the guys that passed and didn't waste attempts in poor weather look really smart.

    Good point about maybe getting lucky with bad weather passing.

    I would say that dialing in the right takeoff from a 3 or 4 stride approach shouldn't take any attempts. Even in bad weather, they should be on the money first time down the runway from a short approach. I find it is only longer approaches than I need to dial ever adjust.
  • yay! no misses!
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 5:00pm CDT
    re: Bring Back the 880
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    Bring Back the 880 wrote:
    passing even higher might be a great strategy since what if the bad weather passes over? Then the guys that passed and didn't waste attempts in poor weather look really smart.

    Avoiding misses is overrated.

    Clearing heights, on the other hand, seems to be underrated.
  • google him if you haven't seen
    4 years ago 08/10/2015 5:00pm CDT
    re: wyjveyjv
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    wyjveyjv wrote:

    The Steven Bradbury of pole vault.

    Great reference.