Nick Willis and John Walker say it like it is.

HRE, Only one current NOP athletes is on thyroid and the other (Ms. Goucher) came to the team already diagnosed from Dr. Brown. She is no longer on the team. That is well documented at this point. I presume this is what you are alluding? It couldn't be about athletic induced asthma, as the NOP has lower rates on their team than the USOC average.

The Nike sports lab is/was not a medical clinic and medical professional have not worked there. Nevertheless, errors are made in both non-medical and medical facilities ALL. THE. TIME.

I understand that you believe you are defending Mr. Willis by trying to discredit the NOP. I'm sure he appreciates it, but bringing down others with your lies is not very honorable.

Of course errors are made in medical facilities. But I never saw one where someone mistakenly wrote that a person was taking one medicine when in fact they were taking another one. Of course Salazar could be right that it was a mistake when "testosterone" was written into the chart but it's much more likely that it really was testosterone and Alberto is trying to deny it. If this were a trial and I was on the jury he'd need to do more than claim the notation was a mistake to convince me.

Willis needs no defending. I was responding to an earlier comment as to why someone might like Willis better than they like Rupp. For me, the "gray area" where Alberto and Galen live, the involvement with a doctor who finds and medicates conditions other doctors don't, the likelihood of taking testosterone, all make Rupp, for me, much less likable than Willis is. I am not claiming that Rupp is doing anything illegal. I honestly don't know. I'm only dealing with reasons why Willis seems the more popular of the two.

eh ???

1/2 of any competent doctors in western world woud give thyroxine to a borderline hypothyroid, with low-mid level T4, who says they have symptoms of lassitude/lethargy/etc

this "diagnose in a specific way" shows you don't know anything about medicine

eh ???

i have been practicising the same way re : borderline hypothyroids for past 25y !!!

did you not read :

testoboost

eh ???

can't you do simple search ???

it's just a vitamin/element supplement

it is NOT meaningless when sal called it as testoboost as retort

i dare not ask you your "role"

clearly not physician/pharmacist/senior nurse as none claimed

there are even roles in hospitals/clinics which mainly involve use of a mop...

thank you but no thanks

you offer no formal qualifications to comment

err...

rupp's chart was NOT a hospital/clinic one but an internal training camp one

sal said it was testoboost, which clearly was shortened to "testo" on report

you do realise this wasn't the mayo clinic sending the report ???

this was akin to sending some blood samples to a lab you found over the web

no

the short label was "testo"

sal claims it was testoboost

proper testo wouda sent his blood tests off the roof !!!

that's what logic dictates

shortening of testoboost to testo on reports or are you going to list all ~ 15 components for it's "label" on form ?

no

you haven't seen or offered initial submission to lab where "patient" is supposed to list all medications/supplements being taken as otherwise

no one has published the medication/supplement report that was submitted by sal

testo was likely just a contraction of testoboost

Great. But you wasted a lot of your time writing all that. I wasn't speaking about their backgrounds. Willis may very well be different than Rupp in that regard. Although you provide no evidence that you know anything about Rupp's background. Furthermore, Willis' training you describe is not that different from Rupp's. Rupp has long kept running volume down over the years and only incrementally increased. Moreover, Willis' training is just as regimented and detail oriented as Rupp's. Of course there are some differences. I'm sure Willis does not use non-doping related "gadgets" such as underwater treadmills and cryosaunas. But in the big scheme of things its not that different. Willis goes to altitude camps. He is not some glorified hobby runner as you seem to make him out to be. And if Willis needs a prescription med I believe he will take it in a heartbeat.

it's a lab

we have no idea about it's rating

testoboost is NOT a medicine

it is a supplement

it has ~ 15 components

no one is going to write 15 components on the submission form, just the name

it appears lab shortened testoboost to testo when sending report back

sloppy, but probably underpaid lab-tech typed in testo instead of testoboost

err...

that is what he has said

you offer no counter-evidence to full nomenclature of testo claim which sal claims was testoboost

why ???

this was not in-patient at mayo clinic or cedars-sinai but some external lab of unknown rating

clearly not great rating as shortening testoboost to testo on report

thankfully jury-selection wouda eliminated you as juror as you clearly don't realise all the facts haven't been presented

where is initial submission report ???

i told you as a doc, that was nonsense

1/2 of all docs in 1st world woud prescribe thyroxine to a borderline hypothyroid with symptoms with NO prompting

of the other 1/2 who didn't, simple statement from patient of :

"if i get no better without thyroxine i will talk to a lawyer"

woud reduce the non-complient docs down from 50% to

< 0.000000001%

you really don't know anything about medicine...

no

testoboost

a supplement

what on earth has "likeabilty" got to do with true, unambigious analysis of an athlete ???

i don't like hearing sob stories of guys running on dirt in backwoods as kid as some diamond-hard evidence of innocence

i severely doubt he ever has

where ???

here Rupp is a legend

i hardly ever here much about Nick here apart from when he runs fast

But what did he say?

What if I told you that Puerto Rico has a serious debt problem. Is that interesting to you? Would it make it any more interesting to you if I have a reputation of being trusted and believable on these matters?

If I had said it 3 months ago, it would be interesting to people who are curious about such matters. But pointing it out after Puerto Rico has missed making a bond payment makes it very shallow.

That's all I'm saying. If Willis had made these comments a year ago, it would have been interesting. To say it on the heels of a leaked IAAF report, its really not that interesting.

OK, if what Rupp is prescribed is "normal" then it is but then why do you need to send him halfway across the country to Brown? Save some airfare and get it at the local Doc in the Box. Everything I've read about this has said that most endocrinologists would not have diagnosed him as having an under active thyroid but let's say they're wrong and Brown is right.

There is still TESTOSTERONE, not Testoboost, listed in the chart and NO reason to believe it was a mistaken notation other than Alberto, who denied coaching Slaney when she tested positive when all sorts of sources from the times, himself included, say he was and who says Magness did not leave NOP voluntarily as he claimed but was fired when Magness' termination letter from Nike says he left voluntarily, saying so. I don't know what happened but I do not find the Salazar/Rupp version credible and I do not find either of them likable and I was responding to a question about why someone would like Willis better than Rupp.

Who likes Willis better than they like Rupp? Well, several people who have posted on this tread do. I do. I like stories of teenagers running in bare feet in the backwoods a lot better than I like stories of teenagers being given testosterone. I like the idea of elite athletes speaking honestly about what is going on in the sport because while we may never have a clean sport it will be a whole lot dirtier if everyone keeps quiet about the dirt.If you think Rupp is a legend that's your business. I really don't care and I am not going to try to change your mind.

eh ???

he can go to any doc in USA he wants

it is a free country

if he liked competence of doc, then he may want to consult him again

not if you have built up rapport with another doc who has managed your health longer, perhaps from early-adulthood

airfare is nothing when having airmiles...

that's why you show you have no damn clue about medicine, let alone endocrinology

the subtleties of borderline/slightly high TSH with low-mid range T4 are a hugely subjective treatment situation

you are out of your depth

nonsense

show me submission document with testo written on it ??

eh ???

what the **** has that to do with the current ???

ask slaney if sal coached her !

clearly mop has been your vocation for adulthood

you never hear of :

~ "submit resignation & we will offer neutral references

if not, you get fired with full disclosure of your transgressions & unemployeable"

yes

you don't

so to presume such is nonsense

i do

let's see other opinions

eh ???

who cares ???

i did not find likeable snell or walker or quax or halberg

i liked dixon & nick

i do not post my opinion of my "likeabilty" of athletes unless prompted

i find your opinion on likeability distasteful

you must have some cognitive disorder

Rupp is a legend here

you must have some cognitive disorder

Rupp is a legend here

eh ?

you asked generally here

Rupp v nick ???

i don't

i like Rupp's story better

laughable !

every african ran in bare feet in backwoods

geb & kennster did

Asbel did

where are your gushing praises for their life stories ???

i have seen no report of a specific teenager been given testo on a lab report

offer it

err...

why on earth do you think their opinions matter when they are not exonerated ?

yes

1st +ve comment made

damn legend

only snell is legend from ferns

none other

eh ?

my mind is highly qualified, able to prescribe

yours clearly isn't...

I know you can't pass up a chance to insult people but I'm not getting into that, or anything, with you. All of that is way too long and not interesting enough to bother reading. Like and believe what you want. I'll do the same.

no

i reply to posts

yours were poor

very poor

i offered no insult but decrying paucity of value

you offered no legit argument

have a good day

yes

it's called possible

attention-deficent-disorder

i found it very good reading

however, i don't have possible

attention-deficent-disorder

only from hard facts

why can't you ?

no

you will continue to believe whatever you want ingrained for decades, even if offered irrefutable evidence that say, antipodean athletes doped ??

you offer negligible

i will change my opinion based on "hard evidence" offered anytime..

Must say, I lost a lot of respect for you today ventolin. I know you're stubborn, and usually that's entertaining and not a bad thing. But if you honestly believe what you're writing here then its a sad day on letsrun.

"thank you but no thanks

you offer no formal qualifications to comment"

HRE is one of the more respected posters in the morass of dribble and drivel on this message board.

Hey! Thanks loads.

Hahahaha. Just ban these doping apologists who are participating in the killing our sport.

Lol, that comment aged well.

Willies is my least favourite runner of all time. He is FULL of it isn't he.

So, people whose native tongue is Russian or Swahili and don't speak any or good English are condemned as dopers because they don't 'hang out' with a tosser from new zealand. Yeah right.

Meanwhile, and I translate from the Russian here,

" see all those dodgy people from nz. Here we are talking about the doping issue and look who isn't joining in. He must be a doper!"

Does Willies speak Russian and Swahili fluently?

Don't like willies much wrote:

Willies is my least favourite runner of all time. He is FULL of it isn't he.

So, people whose native tongue is Russian or Swahili and don't speak any or good English are condemned as dopers because they don't 'hang out' with a tosser from new zealand. Yeah right.

Meanwhile, and I translate from the Russian here,

" see all those dodgy people from nz. Here we are talking about the doping issue and look who isn't joining in. He must be a doper!"

Does Willies speak Russian and Swahili fluently?

Lives in Michigan, doesn't hide out in some third world country with easy access to PEDS.

Ezekiel bread wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Hahahaha. Just ban these doping apologists who are participating in the killing our sport.

Lol, that comment aged well.

Hahahaha! Well done!

It's good to see another example of Tyrone ReXXXing's superb foresight.