HRE wrote:
How would you get money returned from an athlete who has retired?
Same way you would with any fine or debt, via the court system. All athlete contracts/event entries would include a clause to this effect, which the athlete must be made cognizant of and must sign to participate. If the athlete has retired and doesn't have the funds available, then the usual processes of property seizure, bankruptcy etc. via the courts would take place.
The devil's advocate side of me doesn't see many of these happening. Granted, the OP's question was what would you do, but it was also what ideas could be given to the IAAF that the IAAF could use.
The IAAF sort of acts like a private company, at least for the people at the top, in that they are trying to maximize their profit. (The IOC and FIFA do the same.)
Having testing conducted by an independent entity is my favorite idea posted here, but it would cost the IAAF more money to completely outsource all collection, testing, and so on. Additionally, they're giving up control, and control is probably second only to money on the list of things the IAAF is trying to maximize for themselves.
Somebody mentioned MLB, but baseball still has serious issues with PEDs. You really think Ryan Braun and ARod are the only guys who have been doping the last few years? It's probably easier to micro-dose in baseball than in track.
Implement harm reduction strategies, which show far more promise than a 'war on drugs' approach.
Stop obsessing about so called 'performance enhancing drugs' and learn some real physiology. It's all pseudoscientific nonsense.
Two basic issues the sport currently faces:
1) The 'grey area' rules of the upper limits of human bodily chemistry. We all know this - some humans have abnormally high or outlying blood haematocrit values, testosterone values, adrenaline values etc etc and the problem is that too many athletes these days seem to be right on the upper limits of every critical value which is highly implausible - but not illegal. It's too simple a process to approach these limits artificially and legally impossible to punish an athlete who gets to these upper limits.
2) Basic theory of incentives - to want do things or not want to do things. Extreme case - if a country made a law that people who threw cigarette butts on the ground could be reported by any person and then imprisoned for 5 years no parole, no early release then I guarantee smokers would not throw cigarette butts on the ground. Right now the incentive to cheat FAR outweighs the incentive not to cheat.
How to fix? The first problem is by far the hardest to solve. Is it even possible to? How is it possible to judge what is regular body chemistry and what is not. It's clear athletes gravitate to events and sports based on their chemical and physical makeups. What is the evolution of testing? Will it ever be possible to tell if values are being artificially boosted to limits? Do limits need to be lowered? Is it possible to say which combinations of upper limits are simply implausible and therefore not allowed. Tough. Solution - you just need to invest more in testing and somehow try and catch up to the curve. Remedial answer really
Second fix is the easiest - you need to create the incentive not to cheat. Again simple right? One strike you are out life bans and financial penalties. It has to be the same for an athlete trying to make a team and an athlete trying to break a world record. This is so simple it's comical it hasn't been implemented yet. Oh and to help you - you need to bullsh$t how advanced your testing is. Coming out and admitting your testing is still trying to catch up doesn't help create that incentive. Play the game, play the odds the way cheats do now. Your testing has made breakthroughs, it's going to catch any form of artificial enhancement to any level, if you need to bend the truth it may be all that is needed.
You'd need a criminal conviction to get courts to order repayment for the money. You might theoretically be able to have an athlete who won money while doping convicted of some sort of theft. But you'd need to do that in each individual case and there aren't the resources available for that. At most you could turn the offender over to a collection agency and I'm not sure all of them would see something like this as a legitimate debt.
Punishment needs to be more severe.
Those caught cheating would be given a 5 year ban from the sport and assigned a working class job for a working class wage for that 5 years.
They would be required to work and work hard. The types of jobs would be labor jobs, janitorial jobs, etc.. They would have to enter the realms of the "real world" of labor to think about the fraud and the stealing they did that allowed themselves to have the "good life" of a professional athlete. They would have to report everyday to work and the would be no room for missing their job, if missed they would default to a lifetime ban from there sport. This would limit the time they get to devote to training and the possibility of training and using drugs during their ban so that they aren't re-entering the sport better than when they were banned. Just a thought but why not make them earn an "honest" keep via a working class job.
legalize all PEDs, immediately.
no more nanny state babysitting.
Stop acting like nancy and ronnie raygun and their 'just say no' idiocy.
time to man up kiddies....
It is time to get tough....as a fan of track and field I am not a fan because I can no longer believe any of the top times are clean.
What can clean athletes do? If there are any left at the professional level, start a movement to clean up the sport by allowing yourself to be transparently tested. any test any time
they want urine - give them urine
they want blood - give them blood
they want hair - give them hair
anytime - any where
allow your samples to be kept of file for future testing
allow your results to be disclosed publically
answer any question asked about doping on a lie detector
What can the sport do?
put more money & research into testing
lifetime ban for those caught unless they totally come clean - giving what they took, when and from whom...
In fact before new tougher rules (of the lifetime ban) go into place I would offer an amnesty period - come forward now with everything you know and you will get a 1-2 ban and then be allowed to compete....don't come forward and get caught - you get lifetime ban.
The only way Lance Armstrong was caught was from athletes who were using within his organization (Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis)...same will be needed here.....insiders have to be threatened, tempted or rewarded for coming forward.
Coe is running for IAAF president, so he can't state that Russia be banned while there is an investigation. And he is right. You can't condemn a whole nation and deter youngsters from that country based on the fact that some athletes from that country doped. Why not ban the U.S, since their officials covered up positive tests in 1984. I'm sure there are other ways that the IAAF can respond to the Russian corruption once a full investigation has taken place.
And, did Bubka call for a Russian ban? I think not. But you fail to mention that.
As for Jamaica, the article and comments from Coe are quite clear. He stated that the IAAF needs to work in supporting the Jamaicans to carry out OOS testing. He goes on to say that it is wrong to think that Jamaicans aren't tested, which again is correct. They are randomly tested by the IAAF. Coe never said that the Jamaicans were tested by their own national organisation, which they are not (or rather weren't), he was merely pointing out that it was a misconception that Jamaicans weren't being tested at all.
Again, what do you expect someone running for IAAF presidency to say? Do you think he should say that the Jamaicans haven't been tested adequately and therefore must be banned or else accuse all Jamaicans of being drug cheats? Has Bubka come out and made the accusations you wish Coe would make?
If Coe had condemned Jamaica, called for Russia to be banned, criticised the Kenyans, etc, he would have made lots of enemies, not one the election and then been unable to do anything about it. There is such a thing as a long term, end game approach.
I know that no professional runners really want to say this too loudly because they'd look guilty, but what about false positives? Dear God, if Harding was willing to put out a hit on Kerrigan with a freaking crowbar, then it's understandable that a given Olympic athlete might be concerned that one of his or her competitors would pay someone to corrupt a blood sample in such a way so as to make it test positive.
I think that they need to implement lifetime bans but then also implement a standard with ironclad protection of athlete samples. I'm talking A, B, and C samples all stored anonymously at three different anonymous facilities each at least 100 miles apart, an independent observer in the room with the athlete and the athlete's coach and/or agent while the blood is being drawn by the lab technician, whose name is never given to anyone ever, etc., etc., etc.
Of course, all of that would cost a lot of money, and the result of all of this would be slower times. So basically I'm asking for the IAAF and similar entities to spend more money, which lowers their revenues, and I'm asking them to make times slower, which probably also lowers their revenues. Now I remember why I give up.
That's a really good point and it's a major reason I don't like the idea of lifetime bans for first time offenders.
Poll the fans. Ban whomever they think is doping.
That's one danger of the samples being held for years after they're drawn. If I'm willing to bribe people to make sure my fellow competitors test positive, I don't do it before the race. I do it after. I wait until after the race when I get the silver medal. Now I know the specific person who needs to test positive (the guy who got gold) instead of just trying to kneecap the guy who is ranked number 1 before the race and hoping that he happens to also be the only person who beats me.
Sounds like conspiracy theory stuff, but we're talking about some people are beyond competitive and work for years with only one goal in mind.
Whoever they think is doping, not whomever.
1.) No more than 3 athletes with the same jersey in any Diamond League meeting.
2.) Divorce the IAAF from CAS. That way you can have:
3.) Chromosomal testing, sex-organ testing, & hormonal testing for everyone. If you have a Y, you're competing with the guys, deal with it. If you have testes, no matter where, you're competing with the guys. If your testosterone levels are too high, you're competing with the guys.
4.) To deal with these win-out-of-nowhere runners: You have to do more than just win the race at Worlds in order to get the world title. You also have to have raced 5+ times that year (before Worlds, after Worlds or a combination) for 5000m on down, 3 for 10,000m, and 1 for walking events and marathon, AND either gotten the A standard twice outside of Worlds, or twice beaten runner(s) with the A standard. If by the end of Dec. 31st you haven't fulfilled the requirements, you forfeit your medal.
5.) In order to be in the IAAF, a federation must let WADA, not its domestic federation, do the testing, and pay for these tests. This decreases cover-ups by taking testing out of the domestic scene.
6.) Fine a federation for every doped athlete (athlete who fails both A and B sample). It will become so untenable to have dopers that a federation will do whatever it needs to do domestically to kill doping.
7.) Introduce a WWE-style title match structure in the non-Olympic even year with no Worlds (like 2014 was). I'm not sure yet how to accomplish this, and would love suggestions, but I'm basically envisioning a year where the world title is up for grabs multiple times, where athletes can challenge each other for it, and where the meets where it's up for grabs could change, and could be anywhere (from a tiny meet to a Diamond League meet). To clarify, the winner of the World title the year before is not being challenged; rather, everyone walks into 2014 / 2018 / 2022, etc. with NO ONE having it, and the IAAF chooses a meeting to be the first "title match" (e.g. Doha), and the title may change hands from there in subsequent meets. Everyone says track & field is in trouble, and I think this might be a way to breathe some life and fun into it.
Bad Wigins wrote:
ah yeah the hair test wrote:which peds are found in hair again?
Among others, STEROIDS, since a long time ago.
http://www.anabolic-bible.org/ShowPage.aspx?id=86I'm right again, unregistered smartazz is wrong again, usual story.
Who is dumb enough to use anabolic in this day and age.
Your test would miss nearly every single new PED ok
If an athlete is caught doping, their nation is banned from the next WC. If you put this rule in place, individual countries will figure out a way to clean up their ranks in a hurry.
+1From the CIRC report, if it's one thing we should learn from the Armstrong/UCI relationship is that, for the sake of clean sports, we need to eliminate any conflicts of interest. After the Festina scandal, the UCI needed a clean hero, and this clouded their judgement. To the very end, the UCI was still fighting against USADA on the grounds of jurisdiction. The obligation to police the sport undermines incentives to promote it. These objectives should be achieved from separate and independent organisations.
HRE wrote:
I'd have testing done by an autonomous agency that has no connection to the promotion of the sport and therefore no interest in keeping big names eligible. I'd have fines for convicted dopers, it's all done for money, and make them ineligible for prize money or championship competitions until their fines are paid. I'd ban athletes from the Olympics and Worlds I'd their countries do not cooperate with and help to fund the testing agency.
Not only should we ban all doping, there should be ONE training program that EVERY athlete does.
That way we truly know who the best athlete is. Everyone is assigned the same workouts, diets, sleep and then we line 'em up and see who's best.
Or better yet, we just test a few things like their blood lactate and hemocrit levels and give out medals based on that.
Anything outside of complete standardization of training is going to favor the teams with the most resources, which is why the sport is dominated by East African and Carribean nations.
I like most of that numbered list except for 4 and 7.
4: Injuries happen. Under the scenario you lay out, an injury early or especially late in the season could remove someone's medal. I get your point, but there are better ways to do the same thing.
7: Sort of the same thing. I get your point, but I would just make it so that there's a world outdoor championships every year that isn't an Olympic year. What other sport has it's championship three out of every four years? Your scheme is interesting, but it also requires explanation. Casual fans and people who only tune in for the Olympics want to know one thing: when is Bolt or Farah racing to be world champion? If the answer is, well, every few weeks, I guess, because there are these challenges, see, and so there's this meet in Monaco, but then Bolt could win the title back two and half weeks later at this other meet if...
Your number 1 is the key to the whole thing, though. NFL, MLB, they all have issues with doping, and they do what they can, but they make money because casual fans understand what in the world is actually going on. We need teams in track and field, and each team needs to have basically the same uniform every year. I want to see Bowerman Track Club versus Brooks Beasts, NOP versus NYNJ, etc. with a final championship on the line. And I want to know who is on what team just be looking at the freaking jerseys.
I also want to be able to have a beer at the meet and for the meet to be three hours or less, but now I'm getting way off topic.