Andre DeGrasse: most likely clean guy under 10/20 ever

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shekfact wrote:
weren't amphetamines widely available back in the 50s.

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That's why I had "clean" in quotes. Supposedly US sprinters were using them in Melbourne.

Has he run a 400m? The way he closes in that 200m in 19.88 is incredible. The announcer is talking about his speed endurance. I know he runs sub 9.9 100m. He might be able to run a very strong 400m with his build.

IAAF has no 400s listed for him. He dropped almost a second in wind legal 200s in 2 years! (wind legal bests now are 9.95/19.88, but windy times of 9.75/19.58 at ncaa's!).
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/canada/andre-de-grasse-279980#progression

Pretty much everything coach d has said is wrong, except for the small sprinting gains that come with weights.

I can't recall seeing a black guy, even a lighter-skinned black guy with such a prominent farmer's tan before. Props!

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Bad Wigins wrote:

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shekfact wrote:
weren't amphetamines widely available back in the 50s.

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I thought I was the only one who knew this

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The last place dopers want to be is Los Angeles. Akin to visting a US Navy ship with tight speedos own and nothing else. WADA's leading lab is in Los Angeles. More world class athletes and pro athletes live in Los Angeles than any other city. Thus there are drug testers and papparazzi at every health club and track.

So So Obviously .......... a doper

where have ya been .
clear as day that IGF-1 lr3

has a massive part to do with his speed .
and usual procedure of giving it to
younger athlete to aid unnatural progressio
peptide can also keep ya very trim.
clean no chance at all.......
and amonst top sprinters hard to find one
not on it when peaking for comps.
like previous list gave from so obvious
kim collins to vicaut .
to south africans to qataris
some very obvious groups .

As for avoid california area would think
absolute opposite .
biggest pharms tech area anywhere,
and corrupt like balco.
any new peds will find there first
like growth hormone in early 80's and
carl lewis and then epo's use in sprinting
amonst all west coast athletes fr end 80's
always first dips in cali.

Please tell us more wise one. You seem to know every athletes doping regime

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coach d wrote:

A dirty little secret here: There is research showing that 20% improvement in squat strength translates into a 2% improvement in 40m sprint. It does transfer if you're a distance runner, but it doesn't transfer if you're a sprinter, and that's the opposite of what many coaches think. To what extent are American and Jamaican sprinters testing positive so they can add something that they believe works but actually doesn't do jack unless you're a beginner?

Evidence:

--Usain Bolt. In 2008-2009 he was more like 195 pounds. Everybody said that when he lifts more weights and grows into his body, he will get faster. He's now a more muscular 207. He's also slower.

--Kim Collins. The Lagat of sprinting. He does do weights now (didn't until the last few years), but still VERY skinny by modern standards.

--Jimmy Vicaut. He's about the same build are Armin Hary.

--Francis Obikwelu. Something like 6'5"/165, built like Johnny Gray. He finished with the silver in 2004 (9.85, as I recall), AHEAD or Maurice Greene.

--Marion Jones. Not skinny, but what's interesting is that her PRs were set in 1998, BEFORE she married CJ Hunter and BEFORE she trained with Trevor Graham. It is believed that she started doping in the buildup for the 2000 Olympics, and she kept both her PRs and her 1997 and 1999 world championships. It appears that she took steroids and GOT SLOWER.

I'm not saying to do zero weights, but the correlation is questionable, to say the least. There is very little scientific evidence of weight training doing much for sprinters. And the reason you don't see many skinny sprinters is because they believe they need to get big, not because it actually makes you faster.

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Bacon, lettuce, testosterone wrote:

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coach d wrote:

A dirty little secret here: There is research showing that 20% improvement in squat strength translates into a 2% improvement in 40m sprint. It does transfer if you're a distance runner, but it doesn't transfer if you're a sprinter, and that's the opposite of what many coaches think. To what extent are American and Jamaican sprinters testing positive so they can add something that they believe works but actually doesn't do jack unless you're a beginner?

Evidence:

--Usain Bolt. In 2008-2009 he was more like 195 pounds. Everybody said that when he lifts more weights and grows into his body, he will get faster. He's now a more muscular 207. He's also slower.

--Kim Collins. The Lagat of sprinting. He does do weights now (didn't until the last few years), but still VERY skinny by modern standards.

--Jimmy Vicaut. He's about the same build are Armin Hary.

--Francis Obikwelu. Something like 6'5"/165, built like Johnny Gray. He finished with the silver in 2004 (9.85, as I recall), AHEAD or Maurice Greene.

--Marion Jones. Not skinny, but what's interesting is that her PRs were set in 1998, BEFORE she married CJ Hunter and BEFORE she trained with Trevor Graham. It is believed that she started doping in the buildup for the 2000 Olympics, and she kept both her PRs and her 1997 and 1999 world championships. It appears that she took steroids and GOT SLOWER.

I'm not saying to do zero weights, but the correlation is questionable, to say the least. There is very little scientific evidence of weight training doing much for sprinters. And the reason you don't see many skinny sprinters is because they believe they need to get big, not because it actually makes you faster.

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If that 2% increase in 40m time also translates to 100m time, take 9.9 and subtract 2% and see if you think guys would be willing to cheat for that.

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He started taking steroids in 81'. So he might have been clean for a year as a pro. We will never know what a clean Ben could have achieved.

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Yes, you are correct wrote:

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coach d wrote:

A dirty little secret here: There is research showing that 20% improvement in squat strength translates into a 2% improvement in 40m sprint. It does transfer if you're a distance runner, but it doesn't transfer if you're a sprinter, and that's the opposite of what many coaches think. To what extent are American and Jamaican sprinters testing positive so they can add something that they believe works but actually doesn't do jack unless you're a beginner?

Evidence:

--Usain Bolt. In 2008-2009 he was more like 195 pounds. Everybody said that when he lifts more weights and grows into his body, he will get faster. He's now a more muscular 207. He's also slower.

--Kim Collins. The Lagat of sprinting. He does do weights now (didn't until the last few years), but still VERY skinny by modern standards.

--Jimmy Vicaut. He's about the same build are Armin Hary.

--Francis Obikwelu. Something like 6'5"/165, built like Johnny Gray. He finished with the silver in 2004 (9.85, as I recall), AHEAD or Maurice Greene.

--Marion Jones. Not skinny, but what's interesting is that her PRs were set in 1998, BEFORE she married CJ Hunter and BEFORE she trained with Trevor Graham. It is believed that she started doping in the buildup for the 2000 Olympics, and she kept both her PRs and her 1997 and 1999 world championships. It appears that she took steroids and GOT SLOWER.

I'm not saying to do zero weights, but the correlation is questionable, to say the least. There is very little scientific evidence of weight training doing much for sprinters. And the reason you don't see many skinny sprinters is because they believe they need to get big, not because it actually makes you faster.

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Absolutely correct. Let's talk about Ben Johnson. I think is was entirely possible he could have performed as well without PEDs as he did with them. He was blowing people away and leading races at 70 meters when he was clean and relatively skinny. Without PEDs and with a moderate strength program, he would still have improved tremendously due to his natural physical maturation. He possessed great calm and mental poise, traits essential to sprinting at the highest level. Francis' training group ended up being a great laboratory - Desai Williams was on the same doping and intense strength training program as Johnson, had an almost identical body, yet he couldn't win the big races. Williams himself admits he would get too nervous and wound-up before the big races.

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WARNING TO DOPERS wrote:

The last place dopers want to be is Los Angeles. Akin to visting a US Navy ship with tight speedos own and nothing else. WADA's leading lab is in Los Angeles. More world class athletes and pro athletes live in Los Angeles than any other city. Thus there are drug testers and papparazzi at every health club and track.

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$11 million and counting...

Beats Bolt in Rio? Would IAAF allow it?

Olympic bumpity. Still looking unjacked, but then so is Lemaitre. If they are on anything, it isn't reflected in their physiques anyway.

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B-Sample wrote:

Olympic bumpity. Still looking unjacked, but then so is Lemaitre. If they are on anything, it isn't reflected in their physiques anyway.

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Gemili is sub 10/20, I'd bet everything I own that he's clean.