Official 2015 Heps XC thread

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  • wineturtle
    registered
    4 years ago 10/30/2015 4:50pm CDT
    re: tiebreaker
    Forum Index
    tiebreaker wrote:

    wineturtle wrote:

    Does the Heps have a published tie breaking procedure? What is it?

    They compare the head-to-head finishes of your top five. #1 vs. #1, #2 vs. #2, etc. Whoever has more head-to-head wins wins the tiebreaker. Yale and Cornell both finished with 75 points, but Yale took the tiebreaker with three wins (#1, #2, and #5).


    Thanks
    I lean toward breaking the tie for the Championship title only and leaving lesser places scored as tied unless the tie impacts qualifying for or seeding at some other meet.

    There was a thread up about a conference HS XC meet that did not have a tie breaker and used the sixth man approach. I just wondered how many tie breaking variations are in use.

    http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6803002
    this thread reminds me of the Tarmoh v. Felix tie and the USATF and the pitfalls of making up a rule (coinflip/run-off) after the fact.
  • single_tree
    4 years ago 10/30/2015 5:08pm CDT
    re: wineturtle
    Forum Index
    Congratulations Columbia. I really did think Dartmouth was going to get it done this year but the Princeton-Columbia streak continues. Tremendous day by the Penn men as well all the way through. I really thought they were going to catch Columbia when I saw Ritz on Cemetery, but he rallied just enough and did what he needed. Wouldn't be surprised if he won a title in '17 or '18.

    Overall though it was the seniors that had the strength up front, just not the particular seniors I was hoping for. I am hopeful that Dartmouth can reload at regionals.
  • lone_sequoia
    4 years ago 10/30/2015 5:10pm CDT
    re: single_tree
    Forum Index
    Not sure why I have been banned. I suspect my predictions showed a little too much school pride.
  • XCavhs
    4 years ago 10/30/2015 5:48pm CDT
    re: lone_sequoia
    Forum Index
    Where is Trevor Reinhart the yale frosh?? 2x Footlocker all american surely thought he would be a top guy at Yale this year.
  • 30:45XC1978
    4 years ago 10/30/2015 6:53pm CDT
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    rojo wrote:

    Big tails wind today . Beautiful weather. Should be fast



    BroJos: Was this 8K? or 5.0 Miles? Timing site says 5.0 Miles but thought 8Kwas THE distance?
    Was not really fast as thought it was going to be?
  • C/M Runner
    registered
    4 years ago 10/30/2015 8:30pm CDT
    re: 30:45XC1978
    Forum Index
    Nope - 5 miles. The conference originally announced 8km earlier this year but they changed it recently. They seem to think the two distances are close enough...
  • rojo
    cofounder
    4 years ago 11/03/2015 10:33am CST
    re: wineturtle
    Forum Index
    wineturtle wrote:

    Does the Heps have a published tie breaking procedure? What is it?

    Recently, there had been zero tie breaking at Heps and all of the NCAA. Apparently, the NCAA reversed course and said they wanted all ties broken. The problem I have is the tiebreaking is scoring the top 5 basically as a dual meet (our 1 against your 1, 2 against 2, etc.). I'd much rather see it be the 6th man.

    go green wrote:

    here are the times of the 5th man, in order of team finish:

    25:27
    25:22
    25:26
    25:28
    25:35
    25:29
    26:22
    27:01

    amazingly tight among the top 6 teams - the fun of heps is that if a team really really wants it they can upset the favorite.

    That's pretty amazing.Great post.

    I disagree with the sentiment "if a team really really wants it, they can upset the favorite." Maybe this year. But a lot of times in the last 5 years, Princeton has a juggernaut that scores 35 points and these teams scoring 65 or 75 are getting crushed.

    Let's look at how many teams were in it the last few years.

    2014 - Princeton wins with 30 points - wins by 44. Total rout. Only 2 teams under 100.

    2013 -2 teams close. 3rd probably dreams of winning.
    1. Columbia, 48
    2. Princeton, 56
    3. Dartmouth, 64

    2012 - Princeton crushed it.

    Team Scores
    1. Princeton, 26
    2. Columbia, 58
    3. Dartmouth, 77
    4. Cornell, 83

    2011 - Princeton crushed it. Columbia kind of close.

    Team Scores
    1. Princeton, 37
    2. Columbia, 51
    3. Dartmouth, 79
    4. Brown, 91
    5. Cornell, 125
    6. Yale, 162
    7. Harvard, 184
    8. Penn, 233


    2010- Princeton crushed it.

    Team Scores
    1. Princeton, 33
    2. Dartmouth, 55
    3. Columbia, 94
    4. Penn, 118
    5. Cornell, 126
    6. Harvard, 141
    7. Yale, 149
    8. Brown, 188

    So in all of those years, there weren't a ton of teams realistically in the hunt.

    This year, there were 5 teams under 100. Very tight. Almost six as Dartmouth had 103.

    It will be interesting if Princeton gets back to its dominance as having Donn Cabral and Brian Leung totally changed those teams.
  • rojo
    cofounder
    4 years ago 11/03/2015 10:45am CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    I don't think that Aubrey Myjer is getting enough praise. HE IS THE REASON THAT COLUMBIA ONE.

    I've created a thread just to him.

    http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6831109

    rojo wrote:

    So at the 2015 Ivy League Heps championships on Friday, Columbia senior Aubrey Myjer led the Lions to the men's title with a 3rd place showing.

    The guy had never even made the conference XC squad before. After the meet, I was wondering, "Has there ever been a senior before that wasn't a transfer who has placed so high in a conference meet without even making it his first 3 years?"

    Can you think of any seniors that have had similar huge breakouts in any conference?

    He deserves a lot of praise - could have easily quit the sport especially since he's not on scholarship.
  • BRF
    4 years ago 11/03/2015 2:39pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    rojo wrote:

    HE IS THE REASON THAT COLUMBIA ONE.

    I would like to remind everyone that, although Robert coached at Cornell, he did not go to school there. He is a proud graduate of Princeton University.

    'Nuff said.
  • Jake (Yale, '91)
    4 years ago 11/03/2015 11:05pm CST
    re: BRF
    Forum Index
    2015 Highlight video is now live- enjoy!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9OXbHwEC5w

    I apologize for having set the camera to VGA instead of HD- picture quality could be better. Have to be unapologetic about the Yale bias at points in the audio background, however :)

    Robert, any video from the top of cemetery hill?
  • C/M Runner
    registered
    4 years ago 11/04/2015 6:54am CST
    re: Jake (Yale, '91)
    Forum Index
    Wow - thank you for making that! Ok if we share it?
  • Jake (Yale, '91)
    4 years ago 11/04/2015 7:21am CST
    re: C/M Runner
    Forum Index
    C/M Runner wrote:

    Wow - thank you for making that! Ok if we share it?

    Sure- I set the video to public with embedding allowed.
  • CHSAAboyz
    4 years ago 11/04/2015 5:17pm CST
    re: Jake (Yale, '91)
    Forum Index
    Damn, Awad looks so relaxed the entire race. Been racing him for years and it always blows my mind.
  • Jake (Yale, '91)
    4 years ago 11/04/2015 6:24pm CST
    re: CHSAAboyz
    Forum Index
    Women's footage now up- feel free to share

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QBhEvb9Mi0

    The Ivy League Digital Network actually did a pretty good job this year covering the leaders in their highlight video. Way better than in prior years.

    http://www.ivyleaguedigitalnetwork.com/ivyleague/video/ivyleague-highlights-2015-cross-country-championships
  • respect
    4 years ago 11/04/2015 10:21pm CST
    re: Jake (Yale, '91)
    Forum Index
    wow watching Dana Giordano at the end of that video was powerful. so much grit
  • ladedah
    4 years ago 11/05/2015 6:54am CST
    re: respect
    Forum Index
    After losing to Courtney Smith twice this season on the final stretch, I think Giordano decided that this was the time to outkick her. Kudos to Dana.
  • Ancient Ivy
    4 years ago 11/05/2015 8:54am CST
    re: ladedah
    Forum Index
    Dan Ireland deserves a big shout out for the win with Columbia.

    He used to get a lot of stick here when he was at Yale, but his success at La Salle and now Columbia are further evidence that Yale is a hard place to succeed.

    Which also means that credit is also due Paul Harkins and Amy Gosztyla for the best Heps finish by Yale in many years.
  • til the fat lady sings
    4 years ago 11/08/2015 7:55pm CST
    re: Ancient Ivy
    Forum Index
    Thoughts on the league's chances at team bids to NCAAs going into Regionals week?

    On the men's side, Columbia's performances at Wisco and Heps should give them the at-large points to go, particularly if they beat Providence as projected in the regional rankings. They'll have a big ol' target on their backs though, because if Yale, Cornell, or Dartmouth can sneak in front of them they'll be going too. Not sure how the 8k to 10k jump will affect the teams relative to one another-- Dartmouth has the biggest upside if King's Heps performance was a fluke and not indicative of illness or injury, and big question marks around Heps low sticks as Myjer, Rainero, and Randon are having breakout seasons but are generally shorter-distance guys during track.

    In the Mid-Atlantic region, Penn should benefit from Villanova's depth struggles and will likely be the first at-large team in from the region if any go.

    On the women's side, Princeton should go and Yale could capitalize on a weaker-than-usual Northeast region field. They could get screwed by a lack of at large points though because the field is so weak-- they didn't beat any big names at Pre-Nats and won't be collecting on much by beating teams at Regionals. Penn is a dark horse but they have plenty of targets with at-large points to share in their region.

    Best case scenario: 5 men's teams, 3 women's teams
    My guess: 3 men's teams (Penn, Columbia, and one tbd NE team), 1 women's team
  • qualifying men's teams
    4 years ago 11/10/2015 9:41pm CST
    re: til the fat lady sings
    Forum Index
    According to Kolas only 2 teams will be going from the Mid-Atlantic. This means that Penn either has to beat Georgetown or Villanova, and both teams ran very well at the Big East. I think this is at least the 3rd year in a row that Mid-Atlantic has had no at-large qualifying spots.

    4 teams are projected to go from the Northeast- automatics should be Syracuse and Iona, with Columbia and Providence qualifying based on their at-large wins during the season (6 and 5 respectively).

    Conceivably Yale, Cornell or Dartmouth could qualify by finishing in the top 4. However the team right behind them has to have the at-large points to push them in. So if you're Yale or Cornell you're thinking OK, we got within 10 points of Columbia at Heps so let's try to beat them and finish in the top 4, but hope that the other 4 teams in the top 5 are the teams with the at-large points (Syracuse, Iona, Columbia, Providence). Then maybe 5 teams go from Northeast. Not 100% sure how the Kolas system works and how teams get pushed in, so interested in hearing other predictions.
  • C/M Runner
    registered
    4 years ago 11/11/2015 6:54am CST
    re: qualifying men's teams
    Forum Index
    I think the Mid-Atlantic men will have an uphill battle to get a NCAA team berth. Essentially, they NEED to get one of the two auto spots to go to Louisville, with the odds being in favor of Penn over Princeton. I know Awad improved for HepsXC but hopefully he can get the extra 1.2 miles in him to get top 5 individually so he could at least go to NCAAs for the third straight year. I agree with USTFCCCA preview that Villanova's Patrick Tiernan is the likely individual champ for that region.

    I think the Princeton women will qualify as a team out of the Mid-Atlantic as an at large berth (I think they'll place 3rd). Bird should be top 5 as well.

    I think all of the Northeast men teams that are not Syracuse will be battling for 2nd (Syracuse is a lock for the men's team and individual winner in my book), and if any Ivy has the best shot of getting the other auto, it would be Columbia. As Ancient Ivy has noted, how well can the men (especially Myjer) adapt to the 10km? I think Dooney will make the cut for the third year in a row. If there are going to be any other individuals, I think it would be Rainero and Masterson (I'm assuming that Columbia makes the team cut, but if they don't, replace Masterson with Rutherford). Randon will just miss the cut I think, but he's a junior so he should have one more year.

    No women teams out of the Northeast, but I think Giordano and Smith will make the individual cut.