At what age do women start appreciating guys for more than whether they are "fun" or not?

busting my arse wrote:

agip wrote:

I'm an old so this game is decades behind me, but....

in a long term relationship, women want to be #1 in a man's attentions. They want him to be completely carried away by her in all things.

They certainly don't want to be #2 to a job.

If they sense the guy cares more about his career than her, she will be out of there...unless she is out golddigging. But that is a different issue.

So maybe what you are missing here is that yeah, they get bored of you after a few months not because you aren't 'fun' enough...but because you clearly aren't putting them #1 in your life.

I get that, agip. However, I'm 26. I'm still in the phase where I'm building my career. I'm thinking 5-10 years down the road. I don't plan on putting work above everything else the rest of my life. I've just been given a huge opportunity in the last few months and I'm jumping at it. I've been given a chance. It's a huge opportunity to prove myself, make connections, and move myself permanently into a higher tier. I'm making almost three times as much as I was two years ago and have a lot of responsibility. So far I have pulled my weight and then some. Meanwhile, one of my coworkers in a similar position has faltered due to not really caring, leaving early, etc, and he is about to be fired. Please tell me you understand?

My issue is that even when I explain the above to girls, they still think I should be spending hours every single day with them just doing such trivial things as listening to them gab for literally hours. These girls also tend to work at coffee shops or in retail, which isn't surprising to me. While there are driven women out there, they are by no means the norm.

A girl wrote:

I feel like my post will echo things that others have already said, but I feel like most of these posters are men, so I thought I'd add a female perspective. There are two issues that jump out at me when I read this post:

1.) you may think "fun" and career oriented are mutually exclusive. They are not. I have known lots of guys that are very ambitious and work long hours, but in the time we DO hang out, we have great conversations and tons of fun. Just because you are focused on a career doesn't mean you can't have hobbies you like to talk about, a sense of humor, etc. There are plenty of people who can manage being successful and interesting.

2.) you are dating the wrong girls. Intelligent , driven women value a man with goals and ambition. When was the last time you asked out a girl in finance, law, business, med school, a serious grad school program, etc.? Women who are career oriented want a guy who is the same way. Plus, they'll be more understanding about long hours, and you will have more in common.

I'm definitely not pretending to be a relationship expert, but hopefully that's helpful.

messi wrote:

A girl wrote:

I feel like my post will echo things that others have already said, but I feel like most of these posters are men, so I thought I'd add a female perspective. There are two issues that jump out at me when I read this post:

1.) you may think "fun" and career oriented are mutually exclusive. They are not. I have known lots of guys that are very ambitious and work long hours, but in the time we DO hang out, we have great conversations and tons of fun. Just because you are focused on a career doesn't mean you can't have hobbies you like to talk about, a sense of humor, etc. There are plenty of people who can manage being successful and interesting.

2.) you are dating the wrong girls. Intelligent , driven women value a man with goals and ambition. When was the last time you asked out a girl in finance, law, business, med school, a serious grad school program, etc.? Women who are career oriented want a guy who is the same way. Plus, they'll be more understanding about long hours, and you will have more in common.

I'm definitely not pretending to be a relationship expert, but hopefully that's helpful.

Methinks he is intimidated by the driven women you describe.

busting my arse wrote:

agip wrote:

I'm an old so this game is decades behind me, but....

in a long term relationship, women want to be #1 in a man's attentions. They want him to be completely carried away by her in all things.

They certainly don't want to be #2 to a job.

If they sense the guy cares more about his career than her, she will be out of there...unless she is out golddigging. But that is a different issue.

So maybe what you are missing here is that yeah, they get bored of you after a few months not because you aren't 'fun' enough...but because you clearly aren't putting them #1 in your life.

I get that, agip. However, I'm 26. I'm still in the phase where I'm building my career. I'm thinking 5-10 years down the road. I don't plan on putting work above everything else the rest of my life. I've just been given a huge opportunity in the last few months and I'm jumping at it. I've been given a chance. It's a huge opportunity to prove myself, make connections, and move myself permanently into a higher tier. I'm making almost three times as much as I was two years ago and have a lot of responsibility. So far I have pulled my weight and then some. Meanwhile, one of my coworkers in a similar position has faltered due to not really caring, leaving early, etc, and he is about to be fired. Please tell me you understand?

My issue is that even when I explain the above to girls, they still think I should be spending hours every single day with them just doing such trivial things as listening to them gab for literally hours. These girls also tend to work at coffee shops or in retail, which isn't surprising to me. While there are driven women out there, they are by no means the norm.

messi wrote:

A girl wrote:

I feel like my post will echo things that others have already said, but I feel like most of these posters are men, so I thought I'd add a female perspective. There are two issues that jump out at me when I read this post:

1.) you may think "fun" and career oriented are mutually exclusive. They are not. I have known lots of guys that are very ambitious and work long hours, but in the time we DO hang out, we have great conversations and tons of fun. Just because you are focused on a career doesn't mean you can't have hobbies you like to talk about, a sense of humor, etc. There are plenty of people who can manage being successful and interesting.

2.) you are dating the wrong girls. Intelligent , driven women value a man with goals and ambition. When was the last time you asked out a girl in finance, law, business, med school, a serious grad school program, etc.? Women who are career oriented want a guy who is the same way. Plus, they'll be more understanding about long hours, and you will have more in common.

I'm definitely not pretending to be a relationship expert, but hopefully that's helpful.

Methinks he is intimidated by the driven women you describe.

different world wrote:

Women generally put up with boring if there is a lot of money at stake.

I was raised in poverty and abuse, so of course the notion of "fun" never occurred to me. Like a Division 1 track scholarship was "fun". Heck, just getting away from a father who abandoned the family but came around often enough to beat the crap out of me and my mother and my mother's alcoholism was my definition of fun.

I played the snobby higher education lottery well (I have no idea how I did did it) and I now make a very, very good living, and my wife and daughters (out of school now from the Ivy League) are, with the "ahem" leadership of my wife, very happy that I am boring. I am their employee, best not seen or heard. In fact, they respect me not a bit, because, well, I am just an employee. I have no illusions, however, as I am the cause of this whole mess. I let it happen, and they just take the paid for in full nice 5 bedroom house, the cars at no cost to them, the free and easy spending money budget, the clothes, the Ivy League educations, the trips to Europe, and so on, all as a matter of entitlement. Just like demanding boss thinks of their employees, they are owed it and don't you dare bother with things like respect or anything similar. Of course, I naively and stupidly think their behavior is unprincipled (I don't like taking others money and don't feel comfortable relying on anyone but myself), not realizing that most people simply take what they can get.

I wonder if the women looking for fun could not similarly be corrupted in a heartbeat with money. It sure appears that way to me.

My guess is that there are women out there who are principled and not insecure. I sure as heck did not find one.

different world wrote:

Women generally put up with boring if there is a lot of money at stake.

I was raised in poverty and abuse, so of course the notion of "fun" never occurred to me. Like a Division 1 track scholarship was "fun". Heck, just getting away from a father who abandoned the family but came around often enough to beat the crap out of me and my mother and my mother's alcoholism was my definition of fun.

I played the snobby higher education lottery well (I have no idea how I did did it) and I now make a very, very good living, and my wife and daughters (out of school now from the Ivy League) are, with the "ahem" leadership of my wife, very happy that I am boring. I am their employee, best not seen or heard. In fact, they respect me not a bit, because, well, I am just an employee. I have no illusions, however, as I am the cause of this whole mess. I let it happen, and they just take the paid for in full nice 5 bedroom house, the cars at no cost to them, the free and easy spending money budget, the clothes, the Ivy League educations, the trips to Europe, and so on, all as a matter of entitlement. Just like demanding boss thinks of their employees, they are owed it and don't you dare bother with things like respect or anything similar. Of course, I naively and stupidly think their behavior is unprincipled (I don't like taking others money and don't feel comfortable relying on anyone but myself), not realizing that most people simply take what they can get.

I wonder if the women looking for fun could not similarly be corrupted in a heartbeat with money. It sure appears that way to me.

My guess is that there are women out there who are principled and not insecure. I sure as heck did not find one.