At what age do women start appreciating guys for more than whether they are "fun" or not?

OP, look up narcissistic personality disorder. You have it.

busting my arse wrote:I've seen this even with a close female friend of mine who is 29

No one has even mentioned this yet? Guy is getting friend zoned by every girl he meets. Close female friend?

1. arse = British = dental problems

solution: get braces and caps asap

2. they do understand you would rather work later and make connections instead of being with them - some guys can get away with that, some can't

obviously you can't

solution: find someone you love more than your self and your job

1) (easy) Probably disregard the advice of anyone who starts, "What women want...," or similar. Holy cow, people can rack up decades of life and not realize that what one human finds attractive can be 180 degrees out from the desires of another person? AND proudly proclaim their conclusions?! Think about HOW different people can be. And realize that pretty much ALL of them can find a lasting mate. Should that not tell one everything one needs to know about making generalizations? And yet.....

2) (easy) Realize that you probably need to socialize with new and different people.

3) (hard) Find those new and different people.

Not much help, I know, but better than a LOT of the dumb, bad advice you're getting here.

Vadim wrote:

A man's wealth in women lies in his game. And you my friend are a brokeass byafch in this area, no matter your income or PRs.

A woman not worth having: A woman who values the degree of "having game" in a man. But yes, they will find each and reproduce, to the detriment of humanity. Oh well.

busting my arse wrote:

"My issue is that even when I explain the above to girls, they still think I should be spending hours every single day with them just doing such trivial things as listening to them gab for literally hours."

busting my arse wrote:

So according to you and others here, the only way to be a good listener and/or in a relationship is to sit quietly for 2+ hours every single night as your s/o talks non-stop about nothing significant 99% of the time. .... No successful or interesting person would waste so much time doing something so meaningless, and that goes for guys and girls. ...

I'm far from an expert on women, but one thing I do know is that pretty much all women really dislike feeling judged. Which, based on your above statements, you seem to be pretty likely to do. Consider approaching your relationships with the assumption that all people have value inherently, and appreciate them for what they are instead of judging whether or not they're worthy of your time and attention, useful to your career, or someone you want to stick it in. Because all people like to feel appreciated.

You are right that successful and interesting people won't waste time doing meaningless things, and you know what? Unsuccessful and uninteresting people don't either - but what you're not seeing is, the things they do have meaning to them. When you're dismissive of that meaning, you're being dismissive of them, and it should be obvious why they don't stick around.

It depends on the woman- her maturity and confidence.

Girl here.

OP posts "...they tend to get bored after a bit since I'm very career oriented and make that my first priority in life. They don't understand why I would rather work late and save the day for my company and make connections instead of cutting out early..."

Is this a joke?

Go marry your bank account. Have *fun together.

Uh... HELLO!!!? wrote:

busting my arse wrote:I've seen this even with a close female friend of mine who is 29

No one has even mentioned this yet? Guy is getting friend zoned by every girl he meets. Close female friend?

In a world full of people with their own red flags, OP is a red flag factory just cranking them out so fast they are easy to miss.

That's a reference to a Mary Bamford routine in case it matters to anyone.

OP, thanks for the great thread. I haven't enjoyed a NRR thread so much since that dude wanted to room with the hot girl. Also, vivarepublica, good to see you again.

In some ways, I identify with you, OP. I'm 26, at a particular career juncture that makes dating kind of difficult, etc. So I'd like to offer some gentle criticism about the way you've conducted yourself in this thread and come across to others, and then some suggestions for where you can meet the girls you profess to be interested in.

Early on, OP, you responded to pretty mild joshing with insults, i.e. accusing others of "lack of reading comprehension and poor reasoning ability." I don't think that was a good idea, not only because it's just not good policy to be mean, but also because it caused people to turn against you and not give you the information you were looking for. These were anticipatable consequences; your condescension prevented you from achieving your goals. Is it possible that the same thing is true in other aspects of your life and that you haven't noticed it?

You claim to be a very good listener and bolster the claim with the fact that many people call you one. Dude, this is a generic compliment, like "he's really nice" or "he's really funny" that everyone gets. It means very little. In the thread, you say you are frustrated with the expectation that you listen to your S.O's trivial complaints for hours at a time. The rest of us read that and think, this guy probably treats people he's in relationships with badly, and what he calls hours of listening to B.S., they consider "expectations of someone I want to go to dinner with." Do you have anyone in your life whom you trust to give you objective feedback on how you treat women? Someone whose judgement you trust and who has a track record of telling it like it is to your face?

You make a number of essentializing claims about women in your posts, for instance: "it seems like all girls care about is whether the guy is "fun" or not." I am not a woman but I think that most women probably don't like being reduced to such an unflattering stereotype. We know that the habit of negative essentialization exists in your thoughts; has it possibly filtered into your speech? If so that might be a reason you aren't having long-term success with relationships.

Now where to meet the girls you're interested in:

1) Are you on Okcupid? You can filter on anything you'd like. Create an account, and filter down to, say, women with law or medical degrees ages 30-35. Read their profiles for who says that they're in marriage. You should also treat this as a way of potentially falsifying your initial beliefs about the problem (that it's the women and not you). If you've identified the settle-down crowd, and you still don't connect with them, consider the alternate hypothesis that something about you is turning off women in general, and focus on ways to fix it. Either way, I think a therapist would be a good idea.

2) Put out the word to your female friends that you're interested in meeting girls who are looking for serious relationships. I'm sure they know some candidates. You have female friends right? You describe one "close female friend" but then wildly insult her: "She lives paycheck to paycheck and has no hope of ever having a family unless she becomes a parasite as she has no ability to contribute financially to anything." Dude, it sounds like you don't really respect her, in which case, she's not really your friend. But if you have female friends whose opinion you respect, put the word out.

Good luck.

There are people who will always value fun in a companion, and people who don't place as much importance on it as a quality in their partner. It has nothing to do with gender or age.

OP, they'll appreciate you more if you keep your judgmental mouth shut.

Also, you think about women/relationships in completely the wrong way. You think because you make a certain amount of money or whatever you are entitled to attention from the opposite sex? There Maybe you're the one being immature and looking at the wrong kind of women for yourself if these are your values. Personally I think you sound like a fun-sucker that I would barely tolerate having a conversation with, let alone dating.

busting my arse wrote: She broke up with a truly great guy who had a lot going for him to be with this doofus just because he was a bit more "exciting."

Any man who uses the word doofus should have his sperm annihilated for the greater sake of humanity.

I feel like my post will echo things that others have already said, but I feel like most of these posters are men, so I thought I'd add a female perspective. There are two issues that jump out at me when I read this post:

1.) you may think "fun" and career oriented are mutually exclusive. They are not. I have known lots of guys that are very ambitious and work long hours, but in the time we DO hang out, we have great conversations and tons of fun. Just because you are focused on a career doesn't mean you can't have hobbies you like to talk about, a sense of humor, etc. There are plenty of people who can manage being successful and interesting.

2.) you are dating the wrong girls. Intelligent , driven women value a man with goals and ambition. When was the last time you asked out a girl in finance, law, business, med school, a serious grad school program, etc.? Women who are career oriented want a guy who is the same way. Plus, they'll be more understanding about long hours, and you will have more in common.

I'm definitely not pretending to be a relationship expert, but hopefully that's helpful.

Why are you chasing party girls who work at coffee shops? Why aren't you chasing similarly career minded women with similar values as yourself? What about all these "connections" you are making, Are none of them attractive women?

ScottEvil wrote:

You make a number of essentializing claims about women in your posts, for instance: "it seems like all girls care about is whether the guy is "fun" or not." I am not a woman but I think that most women probably don't like being reduced to such an unflattering stereotype. We know that the habit of negative essentialization exists in your thoughts; has it possibly filtered into your speech? If so that might be a reason you aren't having long-term success with relationships.

Ok, I appreciate you pointing out the sexist generalizations in his post, but can I make another suggestion: The problem doesn't lie in lacking a filter in your speech -- the problem is your thoughts and thought processes themselves. Stop trying to make all-encompassing rules for women as if they are all the same. It's an old and accepted narrative in our society: that "what women want" is too complex to figure out; that women are a mystery and not to be understood.......guess what, it's because women are not as predictable as society would like them to be. They are extremely different on an individual, case-by-case basis. And yet men still seem to be trying to figure out one formula to treat them all the same. Stop trying to figure out "women." Find the one you want and figure her out. Slowly. As she does the same with you.

Sorry, kind of just a general rant.

agip wrote:

...but because you clearly aren't putting them #1 in your life.

busting my arse wrote:

...they still think I should be spending hours every single day with them just doing such trivial things as listening to them gab for literally hours. These girls also tend to work at coffee shops or in retail, which isn't surprising to me. While there are driven women out there, they are by no means the norm.

NONONONONONO.

GODDAMMIT.

You guys are stupid, and I guess stupid men attract stupid women, because the women I have dated are nothing like the descriptions you are giving. How about actually trying to put yourself in her shoes, and not think about it "as a woman" but as a human being. Women aren't that hard to "figure out." They're not so different from us.

When are you going to wake up and realize your JOB is your mistress.