Did Lasse Viren really blood dope before Munich?

Actually, rereading the above post leads me to beleive that you may be a High schooler who just checked out all the old-time running books at the public library and can't seem to keep them to himself.

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I agree with you here. I can't exactly figure out why "qucassidy" pisses me off so much, but I just read his nonsense and figure he's someone who barely knows enough to be dangerous. Plus his condoning of masters runners taking drugs while talking about other runners in holier than thou fashion is just annoying as hell. I just find myself having to tell him to shut the f*** up all the time - I can't help myself.

BDG

qucassidy wrote:

The restlessness and anxiety I've felt in my soul since the last interchange of intellectual palaver...is finally mitigated. I am so glad you have improved your ability to dominate the English languauge...and I'm impressed. What I really like is the aggressive nature in which you say..."Fuck you"! Cool man. Just too bad I couldn't meet you on the track where I'd really show you what communication is all about. Remember what Pre did in grade 10 to Jon Anderson in the state cross country champs? who later would win the Boston marathon Lord bless and congratulate hime, (last name may be mistaken), well you'd enjoy the same privelege!

Q

Blah blah blah - shut the f*** up. No I don't remember what Pre did before you were born because I wasn't there and I didn't memorize every detail of his existence. Let me give you a hint - when you write the way you do, no one likes you, and no one thinks you sound intelligent. They think you sound like you're about 15 years old. And the weak ass threats of what you'd do to me on the track just add to the childishness of your posts. I don't imagine you know me, and I don't know what you've run, so isn't that all a little silly? I could be a 55-59 age grouper happy to break 19:00 for 5K and you could be a Trials qualifier for the 20K Race Walk. So, until you grow up and learn what's up, shut the f*** up.

BDG

Legit question. What I can add to the discussion that I do not see mentioned is that an exercise physiologist who advised Viren's coach (Per Olof-Astrand, who developed the whole concept of MaxVO2 and did extensive research on adaptations to endurance training) was asked in an interview if Viren blood-doped. While he did not answer yes or no, he did say that he and others associated with Viren had looked into the practice of "autologous blood transfusions" (AKA blood doping) and determined (probably after experimentation on rats) that the advantages of more red blood cells carrying more oxygen would be offset by the more sluggish nature of blood because of having a lot more red blood cells that would make the heart work much harder. This can increase the chances of a stroke or heart attack. BTW, erythropoetin, or EPO, stimulates the production of red blood cells, so EPO & blood doping are fundamentally different in their impact on the viscosity of the blood. EPO would not make the blood thicker and harder to pump. Also, consider that RBC's live 100-120 days and they would not be fully functional as soon as they are made. Either taking EPO or engaging in blood doping is cheating because these practices deviate from the 100%-accepted norms in sport of working hard, getting rest & good nutrition, and training smart to adapt & prepare for comeptition. Only some agree that EPO or blood doping are ethical. The majority do not. Why mention ethics? Because ethics determine the rules of the sport and establish what is known as a "level playing field": a uniform set of practices which all athletes are expected to abide by. Justifying cheating of any kind can cause the widely-accepted ethic of fair competition to go "out the window".

I don't understand this whole Viren thing. Two of the other heavy hitters in Finland distance running have admitted involvement in PEDs and performance-enhancing methods; Vainio for steroids (and possibly transfusions) and Maaninka admits to transfusions. And Viren when asked about any involvement; denies and basically says the ole "I know nothing" routine. So, 2 out 3 of Finland's best ever are involved in PEDs/methods and yet the 3rd one isn't?

Does this make any sense? ?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-07-28-ss-5814-story.html

This thread is so old that I wasn't even a runner when it was started.

lil babi wrote:

This thread is so old that I wasn't even a runner when it was started.

I was in kindergarten when this thread was created.

qucassidy wrote:

Many rumours appear about this. Can anyone really corroborate this as fact? I give him the benefit of

the doubt and say he didn't. If he did, I challenge

you now, Mr. Viren, to come forth and release your guilt.

Did you blood dope? Is this not much like using EPO?

I'm saying you didn't! But if you did....then come forth and help the track and field world's drug problems by

your honesty...you'd blow everyone away. If you did

use this technique, probably questionable at the time vis a vis it's legality and ethical nuances, admit it and surrender your medal so Pre gets his bronze!

Q

No. He didn't. He did control the races though. If he were anything but European he wouldn't be questioned.

Let's Get To The Bottom Of This wrote:

I don't understand this whole Viren thing. Two of the other heavy hitters in Finland distance running have admitted involvement in PEDs and performance-enhancing methods; Vainio for steroids (and possibly transfusions) and Maaninka admits to transfusions. And Viren when asked about any involvement; denies and basically says the ole "I know nothing" routine. So, 2 out 3 of Finland's best ever are involved in PEDs/methods and yet the 3rd one isn't?

Does this make any sense? ?

It's a bit like El G - so many training partners, teammates etc. busted and he himself, to my knowledge, has never specifically denied using EPO. I've read lots of archived interviews with him now and when the interviewer is brave enough to raise the subject of EPO or peds, El G seems to carefully deny that his success is down to doping (rather than hard work), not that he categorically did not take drugs.

Somebody else mentioned how Viren was a poor performer outside the Olympic Games. As far as I know, most or all of the highly suspected or confirmed blood dopers from the 70's and 80's were very inconsistent outside the major championships. This is very unlike Sebastian Coe, who is often accused of doping here, both roids and blood doping. Seems Coe and his father somehow managed to master not only the art of taking steroids without excess muscularity (or any signs of muscularity), something that was beyond the entire GDR doping scientists, but also blood doping to enable world best performances from the indoor to all the way through the outdoor season, again something that was well beyond the collective genius of the GDR.

If Neville Chamberlain had blood-doped before Munich, we might have avoided WW2.