I am a new xc coach in need of help

I'm not a coach but I would skip the time trial - that's what early season races are for. I agree that a high pressure, all eyes on you event is not the right way to start a season - better to let a kid train quietly and race in relative anonymity. A new runner doesn't understand that it gets better - they run a 5k time trial in a state of very low fitness...they will think that is what distance running is like. They don't know that it gets much better with fitness.

Duty free wrote:

For the top, EXPERIENCED runners: 40-50 mpw is good. For freshman/first year runners do 70-80% of that. For sophomores/second year runners do 90% of the top number.

These numbers are okay for end of the season, but not anywhere near the start of the season -- for most kids anyway. First year runners particularly need time to develop and see the gradual buildup. You're going to have kids that never ran distance ever, and for their first official week of practice, they should absolutely not be exceeding 20 miles. Day one 4mi easy, day two 3 mi w pickups, day three 4 mi easy, day four 3 mi w pickups and day five something fun like 1 mi easy + 2 mi team challenges (200s + 400s) + 1 mi easy. The returning runners can be pushed a little harder but the first year kids need time to adapt. Running simply isn't as much fun as team sports for most kids and so you've got to make it fun. Good luck and be a creative and open-minded coach.

A TT is fine if you frame it appropriately. Something along the lines of, "ok guys, let us set a baseline for you to laugh at at the end of the season. No pressure, just give it an honest effort. " Just for fun, you could split the group up. One group cheers while the other group runs, then they switch. Builds a bit of team spirit.

For your freshmen runners, cut back on the intensity and focus more on building strength, endurance. Monitor their recovery more closely by say, running with them during easy days. Of course these are general opinionated ideas, take 'em for what they are worth.

I think a time trial is fine at any distance between a mile and 2.5 miles. I think you mentioned having new runners do a mile and everyone else do 2.5 miles. I think Jack Daniels' book is great and should be fine. I would divide them up in groups based on fitness (1. those who ran all summer; 2. those that kind of ran and 3. those that did sh_t).

You're probably going to have the third group build a base for most of the season if that is the case.

Daniels provides specific pacing for specific fitness levels. I would stress to each individual runner what their target pace is for every workout and have them try and hit that. High school runners typically get too competitive in practice with teammates and shoot their wad in practice. Racing is for the meets. You can improve without going anywhere near 100% in practice. And you can stay more injury-free, if that makes sense. Easy days are meant to be easy and run at a corresponding pace. Hard days should be challenging but not approaching 100% effort. Let's worry about beating the opposing runners and let's help teammates out.

My HS coaches never spent any time with me on racing strategies. Don't assume that kids will figure it out themselves. Scout the course and develop a strategy for each runner based on their fitness and running style. And at least tell them to avoid the #1 mistake committed by almost all HS runners - you guessed it - going out way too fast at the beginning of the race. They need to develop a sense of pace. You need to help them develop that.

If I were a HS coach I would implement some sort of award/prize for passing the most runners from 200 meters out or so until the finish. I'd set up or have someone video the last 200 meters and keep a running tally throughout the season. In a large invitational, if your top seven passed ten or so runners each in that stretch, your team could easily move up close to 100 points in the final stretch of the race.

Consider the Tiger Woods approach to meets as well. There are only 3-4 meets (conference, state qualifying meets, and state meet) that really matter and those all occur at the end of the season. If you have individuals that should be competing in all of those major meets, you need to have them peak for those meets. That may entail holding them out of bullsh_t meets that mean nothing. Don't over-race them.

Don't assume kids will figure out good sportsmanship either. After a league meet one year, I went over to congratulate the winning team. I told them congratulations on running a good race and winning the league. They were all on the ground stretching at the time. They all just kind of looked at me dumbfounded. No one said a word. I think their coach had set my team up as a target/the enemy. Maybe I had upset their reality by coming over and congratulating them and they were shocked in light of what their coach may have said in the past.

99% of your team will never be champion runners but at least they could look a rival in the eye, shake his hand, and say congratulations, you were the better man today. Or, if on the receiving end, say thank you and you ran a fine race yourself.

One other thought. Consider the Michael Jordan approach to building a great team. If you have a really good runner(s) and he/she wants to be great/better, he/she needs to make those around him/her better. Teammates sometimes have a greater influence than coaches.

A lot of it has already been said, but I think this point needs to be said...

You have no/very little control what talent you have. HS XC is not about winning or running fast...at first. Its about developing a positive culture where kids find running fun. For some kids running as fast as they can and training hard is fun but unless you have 7 of these, you are going to be pulling your hair out.

1) Never yell. Life isn't like the movies. It's ok to let kids know what the standard of work ethic is but the military phenotype for coaching went out for a reason. And never take the work ethic/attitude of a 16 y/o boy or girl to heart. Guide them but ultimately they need to make the decision.

2) Make it fun. Have the kids do cool runs and interesting workouts. You know what workout kids hate? Quarters. Get creative. You can almost have kids do anything and they will improve.

3) Never yell. Its HS XC.

what's the point of a preseason time trial for regular non elite hs runners?

What will you learn from a TT that you won't learn from a set of mile repeats or waiting for the first little race?

maybe it's just me, but I used to loathe the time trial - I was rarely in great shape, it hurt like heck, meant nothing, and made the beginning of the season WAY too important. I think it is a way for coaches to pick a varsity 7 for the first race more than anything.

Newbie Coach wrote:

I ordered Jack Daniels running formula to help assist me. I have to wait a couple days for it to arrive though. I want to start off by finding out what shape the returners are in. I was wondering if you guys could help me understand how to do this. I was also wondering if you guys could help me understand how successful xc teams are structured.

This upcoming fall will be my 5th season coaching HS cross country at the school where I work. I've been fortunate enough to be mentored by other coaches in the area. They've been helpful with everything from training advice, to guidance with regard to meet registration and such.

I started our xc program back in 2011 with 3 boys and 1 girl. At the end of the first year, our boys school record for 5k was right around 23:00. In 4 years, our program has grown to about 25 boys and 8 girls. Last season, we had 2 boys under 17:00 and all 7 varsity under 18:15. Furthermore, we'll return nearly everyone, as we only lost our #5.

I know that this is all quite unremarkable by most standards, but it was a big milestone for our team.

Anyway, while I've read many training books, the Jack Daniel's book remains at the cornerstone of our program. I've read it 4 times cover to cover. This article has also been influential in my coaching:

A general training progression that we follow in our program is 20-30 mpw for frosh, 30-40 for soph, 40-50 for juniors, and about 50-60 for seniors. Keep in mind that these are just guidelines. I've had seniors do 70+ mpw (at a previous school) and frosh who only ran 15-20 mpw. It's a case by case basis, depending on what they've done before. If I have someone who has done virtually no physical activity, outside of gym class, I start with some sort of walk/jog for the first 7-10 days, until I have a better handle of what their body can manage. On the other hand, I've had "beginners" who have played all sorts of sports beforehand and they progress to that 20-30 (and at times beyond) a lot quicker. You just have to communicate well with the kids, keeping track of how they are feeling and making adjustments as needed. Also, I typically do not race beginners until October, so that they have at least 5-6 weeks of training under their belt before the first race.

We do a time trial at the beginning of the season, but I only have returners do it. I usually have them do a 3k or 4k, since they are unusual distances that the kids don't normally race. This let's me know their fitness, while keeping those who are behind in their fitness from dwelling on a slow time for a distance that they care about.

I try to limit how much racing we do to 5-7 races max per season. Whenever possible, we only truly race the "important" races. I'm strategic about which meets we go to, selecting meets that have under distance (mainly 4ks) and/or hilly courses, where it fits into the training, followed by courses which are similar to our state meet course.

Finally, gathering parent/guardian support is very helpful. Getting them on board early helps things go smoother. When it comes to helping out at a meet or hosting a pasta party, one email and I'll have several volunteers willing to help.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Coca Cola. That's all you need to know.

Lots of great advice in this thread, but trackprod's post was a BULLS-EYE as far as training goes.

One thing I would add to what I am reading-- do not overlook the motivational/leadership aspects of coaching. If the kids do not respect you, they will not run hard for you or each other. Period. 2 great books:

--Wooden on Leadership by John Wooden

--The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell

Be firm but respectful and caring. Who you are as a coach will set the tone for the program. Also, identify a few kids who have leadership potential and start coaching them up on it. It's a multi-year investment. If you can get a couple kids who are great peer leaders and start coaching up their leadership abilities as freshman, after two years you will have great assets in your program. Identify any kids with strong leadership potential who are older right away and delegate to them what their leadership abilities allow.

Good luck!

Have each runner record what they did in workouts and review prior to next workout with a goal to do a little more. Don't make newbees do whole workouts.

My daughter started trining with the high school team this summer. I only let her go 3 times a week for 1st couple of weeks so she would not be as likely to get injured. Her hs tends to work newbees hard.

I'm in my 2nd year of coaching. Ran HS and college XC and track, but didn't want to assume what I'd done was best, and I don't think I remembered my HS days very accurately.

Daniel's book is good, and, as someone else said, will help you keep from making big mistakes. I think it's sometimes a little hard to piece all of the suggestions together, since it's written to such a huge range of runners (mileage, experience, ability). Take into consideration his recommendations on how to come back from a break, which is in the appendix, at least in the edition I have. I have an Excel/Google spreadsheet I use now that takes a runners' best 3 mile time and comes up with the paces for Daniel's 3 training speeds for Threshold, Intervals, and Repetitions. Those are all in the book, but it's easier for me to have it all ready to go rather than looking it up for each runner for each workout. I should probably sometime modify it so it doesn't have to be a 3-mile run, and so it gives marathon-speed paces too. Let me know if you'd like to see it and I can figure out a way to email you.

As for me, we do summer training and last year we did a 2-mile time trial in late July and a 3 mile in mid-August, but this summer I'm skipping the early time trial because it's not that important, and because if I wouldn't have them do 4x800m hard that early in the season I think it's too early for 1x3200m hard. When the 3 mile time trial came along we had a number of people not at 100% and get held out. My HS coach was VERY good (some CA state championships) and we did a 2-mile time trail near the end of the summer.

I know what you mean about people quitting because it was too intense. I guess my advice would be to give new runners a chance to learn to love the sport. Give them a year (or 2) to learn to work hard and feel a part of the team, etc. But you can help them self-select their mileage (give a range) and I think that will allow people to stay around while still allowing people who are motivated to have an opportunity to train hard, compete, and improve.

I'm stickin with my short time trial for new guys or non trainers and longer one for the workout guys. gives them and you a decent baseline

I'd also make it a low key deal - don't put much pressure on em - maybe a bit on trainer group

Yes. Generally after track this is how it should go:

-2 weeks off

-Easy running for 5-7 weeks building up mileage by 5-10% per week with hill sprints/strides a couple times per week

-Tempos 2x a week for another 5-7 weeks (tempos should start at 15 minutes each for the first week and then 20 and then max out at 25 for the last ones)

-replace one tempo with a hill workout (long hills ~2 minutes) until 6 weeks out from final race

-at that point start vo2 max reps like 5x1k, etc.

-hold peak mileage until 3-4 weeks out from final race

-2 week taper. 1st week is more subtle than the 2nd

This is the program my high school has used for decades. Every year we place in the top 2 at states. Anything 3rd place or worse is quite rare.

Good advice here so far. One thing adapted from how my college coach did things: you might want to have two time trials, one for people who are serious about XC and another for folks who are getting in shape for winter/spring sports or who peak for track (800 m. runners, for instance). For the XC serious folks, 3 miles on the track, tell them it should be difficult but that they shouldn't be dying at the end of it. For everybody else, 1.5 miles. For the second group, you can tailor workouts around their 1.5 mile pace because thats probably a closer simulation of the kind of work they'll do in other sports and/or track.

TDodd22 wrote: I'd recommend a 2 mile or 3200m time trial. What they run at this point, or in early August (depending on when you choose to host this) may show what pace they are capable for a 5k when championship season comes around.

This is a good suggestion, but for high school, I would recommend a twelve minute time trial on the track instead. For the fast runners, the information generated is similar, but you don't want to shame the freshman or girls who might be running 16+ for a two mile. On the track, you also can continually observe the effort of everyone to see who is putting 100% effort vs. tempo vs. jogging to further refine your estimation of what their training level should be.

I hope this doesn't complicate things further. If I was coming to a team "cold" (no knowledge of who I am dealing with, what their fitness is or level of commitment), I would start with a 3200m OPTIONAL time trial. New runners or unfit ones that might be scared off don't have that hanging over them. Fit runners who opt out also tells you something. For those fit , committed runners, this time trial will give you a fitness marker. For those who are new or unfit that choose to tackle this, it is an indication of those who are highly motivated. The first race (any race really) will also be a marker so you don't need to rush this.

Your number one goal in this phase is to earn the trust of your runners. Giving them this "buy in" option is a great first step towards this trust.

BTW, Daniels is a common enough text that most Barnes and Nobles have it stocked...you might get a jump on it by wandering down to your closest B&N and starting to thumb through or turn to the back for early workouts.

I will be real quick. I was a Coach for 5 years. 2 State Championships and 1 Runner-Up in Girls. I also Coached Boys as well. I say that not to be an Ahole, but to let you know that I had kids that were pretty dedicated to getting better, thus would do a little summer running.

I believed in the time trial. Our girls raced 2 miles during the actual season and 3 miles for the boys(this was mid 1990's). I would always do a time trial 30 days in from the actual start date of the season. We started August 1, so Sept. 1 we would do a 1.5 mile time trial. I did it 30 days into the season because of what most say on here about non-runners vs runners. Plus, the whole group got 30 days of my influence. I then skipped the 1st meet of the year and focused on every meet after that. Just my own philosophy. Worked for girls, not so much boys...ha

Hope this helps and good luck.