People keep mentioning paperwork, but did Craig need to file any paperwork? Did Tyler file paperwork? Is there any "paperwork" for this?
I don't think it's that weird to think that USATF maybe should have a database of the results from all of their sanctioned marathons and then be able to sort it by fastest times. It's 2015. USATF doesn't have Excel?
brogan1 wrote:
My first question was whether or not Leon submitted an application for the team. I assume there is some sort of paperwork process. We can't expect USATF to just keep track of all our (2nd tier?) athletes' performances and just assume they want to participate..
Does anyone with experience know if marathoners have to apply?
I'm asking because the USATF web page listing the selection criteria says nothing about applications or applying.
This isn't as odd as it seems. For every event except the marathon and the race-walks, team members are selected based on their performance at Nationals. So there's no reason for applications -- an application to the Nationals is an application for the team.
PS I seem to remember that someone was left off a national team recently because she didn't notify the USATF that she had met the World standard after Nationals. Does anyone remember the details? They might be informative.
Can they not both represent Team USA? Is there only one marathoner per team? It seems like there are three spots available based on the criteria someone posted.
Qualification system
A total of 680 athletes will qualify to compete at the games. A nation may enter a maximum of two athletes per event, granted they meet the qualification standard. Qualification times and standards can be set from January 1, 2014 to June 28, 2015.
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So it seems like they can both go!
There are two athletes ahead of Craig. He would get the third of three spots.
Tyler McCandless? Didn't he win the PIAA District 11 3200 meter title back in 2005? Out kicked Sam Luff if I'm not mistaken.
How does it actually work? wrote:
PS I seem to remember that someone was left off a national team recently because she didn't notify the USATF that she had met the World standard after Nationals. Does anyone remember the details? They might be informative.
Rowbury in the 1500 in 2013.
But because of a misunderstanding in the process for reporting times, Rowbury’s federation (USATF) didn’t enter her as a possible competitor in the 1500m in Moscow, so she was ineligible to switch disciplines.
“So, apparently USATF didn’t know that I had the “A” standard and didn’t enter me,” Rowbury began...
Rowbury admitted that it was her responsibility to notify her federation of her mark, but she found it odd that officials hadn’t recognized it on their own considering it was such a fast time achieved in one of the sport’s best-known meetings.
“Honestly, I don’t ever remember seeing that; she [Snow] said it was on the website,” Rowbury continued. “Anyway, at the end of the day I guess that’s my mistake, but I find it pretty unfathomable that USATF didn’t know I had run 4:01 at Monaco.
wikipediaaaaa wrote:
Qualification system
A total of 680 athletes will qualify to compete at the games. A nation may enter a maximum of two athletes per event, granted they meet the qualification standard. Qualification times and standards can be set from January 1, 2014 to June 28, 2015.
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So it seems like they can both go!
It sounds like they already selected the maximum of two athletes.
Tim Young 2:14:40
Tyler McCandless 2:15:26
Craig Leon ran 2:14:43 but he wasn't chosen. So, did USATF screw up or was there issues with paperwork?
The ODEPA (Pan Am Organization) put some qualifying standards last year,
But later there were almost 1200 athletes with the standards (counting all countries). So, in most of the cases every Federation (like USADA) cut the spots (there aren't enough beds in the Toronto Pan American Village). Most of the National Commitees argued about certain athletes "not included in April early lists".
I know about several mistakes in South American National Teams. Many athletes (specially in endurance events) have been unfairly excluded from their national teams.
There's a blue collar steeplechaser from Argentina who ran 8:41 without specific training, qualifying to Pan Ams. Only this year he competed in 800 (1:52);1500m (3:46), 2:20 marathon and 1:06 half marathon, also he is running road events almost every weekend and mountain events once a month. He ran 8:41 in 3000/sc without rabbits (the 2nd placed athlete ran 9:10), and working as a bricklayer 8 hours per day, but he was excluded from the National Team because he wasn't in the early lists sent to ODEPA back in April (Although the Pan Am selection rules said that he was in time when he ran 8:41 -May 18th-)
I'm pretty sure Craig Tweeted out that they had their legal department on the issue (them) being mizuno i am assuming????
Hope the VW gets in and represents!
Doesn't sound like there is any paperwork to even file. I don't see how Leon isn't on the team. Sucks for McCandless, but rules is rules.
Athletes must have completed and submitted Attachment B as a condition of selection. Until Craig confirms he submitted the required paperwork this is a non-issue. As a side note there are Canadian athletes griping about selection who failed to fill out the required paperwork (Fawn Dorr).
Obviously this is not Tylers fault in any way, so ease up on the vitriol.
USATF asked for paperwork in either March or April. The marathon picks have to be made with more than two weeks notice.
faktchek wrote:
Athletes must have completed and submitted Attachment B as a condition of selection. Until Craig confirms he submitted the required paperwork this is a non-issue.
As usual, the USATF rules are very badly written. For instance, they say "nominated" athletes have to sign the statement.
1.1.4 Nominated athletes are required to sign a USA Track & Field Statement of Conditions for participation.
That phrasing suggests that first you are nominated, then you sign the statement.
The only reference to a date or a form on the USATF web page for the Pan-Am is this:
7.8. DATE OF NOMINATION
The Nomination of Athletes form, including replacements, will be announced to all athletes and submitted to the USOC on or before:June 29, 2015
Again, this makes it clear that USATF is doing the nominating.
The one place the rules mention athletes applying, or giving notice to the USATF, it is in the discussion of athletes withdrawing from team, etc. AFTER they have been nominated.
As I mentioned above, the general rule is that athletes are selected based on their performance as the Nationals. This isn't the case for marathoners, yet there is no discussion of any other procedure for determining who is eligible.
SO AGAIN: What is the deal with paperwork??? Does anyone know if marathoners have to submit paperwork expressing their desire to be considered for the team?
Am I missing something? It says the fastest times. There have to be several Americans who ran faster than 2:14 in that window - There were several at Chicago and a couple at Twin Cities, Ryan Vail at London, and even Meb at New York was 2:13 I think ... and there have to be others. So perhaps it isn't so simple as run the time, make the team...
Daniel A Gore wrote:
Am I missing something? It says the fastest times. There have to be several Americans who ran faster than 2:14 in that window - There were several at Chicago and a couple at Twin Cities, Ryan Vail at London, and even Meb at New York was 2:13 I think ... and there have to be others. So perhaps it isn't so simple as run the time, make the team...
They go down the performance list of athletes who meet the criteria, contact athletes, and who accepts is who they go with. In this case they overlooked Craig's time at Houston.
The fault lies with USATF/National Office for overlooking Craig's time. Tyler will likely be staying home, as they only allocate so many spots. This has nothing to do with missing paperwork.
How about send no one at all and no one at all will notice?
I know we are talking Pam Am here, but why for world championships does it say one from top 5? Why not fastest qualifier? Technically they can take 5th if they want to.
For worlds don't 5 go in the marathon? That lists only three.
this is how wrote:
Daniel A Gore wrote:Am I missing something? It says the fastest times. There have to be several Americans who ran faster than 2:14 in that window - There were several at Chicago and a couple at Twin Cities, Ryan Vail at London, and even Meb at New York was 2:13 I think ... and there have to be others. So perhaps it isn't so simple as run the time, make the team...
They go down the performance list of athletes who meet the criteria, contact athletes, and who accepts is who they go with. In this case they overlooked Craig's time at Houston.
The fault lies with USATF/National Office for overlooking Craig's time. Tyler will likely be staying home, as they only allocate so many spots. This has nothing to do with missing paperwork.
You've got this backwards. The athlete has to contact USATF to indicate his/her interest in running said event. (Note: this is only for the marathon and race walk. The selection process for track and field events is different and is based on the finish at the USATF meet.)
Tyler put his hat in the ring. Craig didn't. Tyler got picked, Craig is sitting at home, picking his nose. If I were Craig I'd fire my manager/agent, assuming his has one. If he doesn't have one, maybe it'd be a good idea to get one.
Daniel A Gore wrote:
Am I missing something? It says the fastest times. There have to be several Americans who ran faster than 2:14 in that window - There were several at Chicago and a couple at Twin Cities, Ryan Vail at London, and even Meb at New York was 2:13 I think ... and there have to be others. So perhaps it isn't so simple as run the time, make the team...
Everyone faster turned it down.