"People have been threatened at this meet" - Kara Goucher

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  • MikeM
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:33pm CDT
    re: MikeM
    Forum Index
    MikeM wrote:
    Not many people are liking the Gouchers right now...

    Your are a worthless Freud PR Drone. The only people disliking the Gouchers are a few diehard NOP fanboys, and the few employees Freud has put to the task of attacking a woman. So, the dislike of Freud for sending men to beat up a woman makes your firm, and it's employees absolutely worthless.
  • north boulder snicker
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:36pm CDT
    re: MikeM
    Forum Index
    MikeM wrote:

    The point is they did post their suspicions to a TV source you dolt! So they went to USADA/WADA and after talking to them were not happy and then went to the media. How oblivious are you? They are absolutely using the media. Yeah, making claims at the USATF meet with not facts, that certainly isn't screaming for 'look at me...please believe me.' You my friend are obtuse. If Salazar is found to be guilty, then I hope he is banned. But if not, this whole media circus brought on by people WHO HAD ALREADY GONE TO USADA/WADA was entirely media driven because they hadn't gotten the result they wanted. So, as big of a prick as many people think Alberto is, rational people are not happy about the media circus that is surrounding this because it does seem more like a witch hunt/media circus/Soap Opera. So seriously, knock off your s**t and pull your head out of your butt. Not many people are liking the Gouchers right now and it has nothing to do with liking Alberto or the NOP. Has Magness been out in full force in the media? No. Hence no rip Steve M threads. Get that? Or is that just to understand?


    I do believe that ol' KMB is going to rip you a verbal new one Mike M.
  • Reader of Threads
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:38pm CDT
    re: MikeM
    Forum Index
    MikeM wrote:

    KMB wrote:

    MikeM wrote:
    If she came out with everything already, then it would appear that there is not going to be much of a case.

    She has said on more than one occasion, in fact twice in the past four or five days, that she has more to tell.

    MikeM wrote:
    I am not being impatient, I said let's see about her response.

    Which you want posted online hours ago.

    MikeM wrote:
    In fact, I would rather wait for USADA/WADA to come out with their findings once they have them.

    Then feel free to tune her out.

    MikeM wrote:
    Kara or other people saying things at the US champs like 'people being threatened' without elaboration is both reckless and impatient. It is asking for public sympathy immediately from fans. That is impatient and characterizing things in the media a certain way to fit her story.

    How is it "impatient" on Kara's part to say what she did? At worst you can accuse her of teasing you.

    Kara going into detail about these threats on camera while still on-site at the championships, and in the immediate aftermath of her race, would have been far less wise than composing her thoughts and expanding on her statement a few days later, as she said she would. Or does that somehow strike you as implausible?

    MikeM wrote:
    If someone can't see that then they are blind.

    Can't see what? (That's not a joke.)

    MikeM wrote:
    Finally, the allegations of doping are serious requiring more than a hand-written prescription, a conversation with Galen before his AR, and other heresay arguments...

    Salazar's writing on a pill bottle doesn't constitute a prescription.

    MikeM wrote:
    ....What has been presented by Kara to make you think Galen or Alberto did dope, especially after the response by Alberto. Also, she has yet to exclaim her TUEs or list of supplements. Why is that expected of others and not her, Adam, or anyone else making accusations?

    You need to proofread your posts in order to make them intelligible.

    Everything you just wrote signifies that which you claim not to harbor: garden-variety impatience.

    MikeM wrote:
    Where have I called her attention whore? Washed up? I am not sure, but her recent results indicate she is on the downward trend in terms of being relevant. In terms of defaming Adam or Kara, where have I done that.


    I didn't say that you did. But in complaining that she fired the first shot, you appear to be excusing those who have done so, repeatedly and viciously.

    MikeM wrote:
    I can't certainly be responsible for others who post and if our commonality is we both think she is lying or exaggerating things, that is a very tacit link. So yes, the standard applies to all parties, so let us apply it equally and have Kara be as descriptive as Alberto and Galen are expected to be.

    "Are expected to be" -- right. Since you brought it up, why isn't anyone mentioning that Salazar posting his thoughts on a Web site rather than talking to a reporter (or at least following up the former with the latter) is an act of sheer cowardice? Anyone can use a static Web page as a bully pulpit.

    Imagine that to this point, Magness, the Gouchers, Stiner and the rest of Salazar's accusers had posted all of their suspicions on their personal Web pages but not given interviews, whereas Salazar had gone on televsion to discuss them.

    Would people be calling Salazar a limelight-seeker? Nope.

    Would they be screaming bloody murder at the lack of guts of the others? Undoubtedly.

    If Salazar were as confident in his ability to refute the allegations as he pretends to be in his "open letter," he would have no problem talking to reporters about it. But he won't go on camera and the only reporter he talks to is his de facto spokesperson at the Oregonian. So please knock off the bullshit about Kara trying to manipulate the press and public opinion to her advantage -- you need to look in the opposite direction for a classic and undeniable example of this.


    The point is they did post their suspicions to a TV source you dolt! So they went to USADA/WADA and after talking to them were not happy and then went to the media. How oblivious are you? They are absolutely using the media. Yeah, making claims at the USATF meet with not facts, that certainly isn't screaming for 'look at me...please believe me.' You my friend are obtuse. If Salazar is found to be guilty, then I hope he is banned. But if not, this whole media circus brought on by people WHO HAD ALREADY GONE TO USADA/WADA was entirely media driven because they hadn't gotten the result they wanted. So, as big of a prick as many people think Alberto is, rational people are not happy about the media circus that is surrounding this because it does seem more like a witch hunt/media circus/Soap Opera. So seriously, knock off your s**t and pull your head out of your butt. Not many people are liking the Gouchers right now and it has nothing to do with liking Alberto or the NOP. Has Magness been out in full force in the media? No. Hence no rip Steve M threads. Get that? Or is that just to understand?

    KMB wrote:

    Karas Nose wrote:
    1) She lied about when she got the Cytomel bottle.

    Please link to a source that establishes exactly when Alberto gave her this bottle.

    Karas Nose wrote:
    2) She lied that Alberto thought she was fat before Boston.

    You can read Alberto's mind?

    Salazar posts some e-mails that only someone already convinced of Alberto's rectitude would view of evidence of Alberto not encouraging her to lose weight during her 2011 Boston Marathon build-up.

    Her nutritionist even said on March 25 of that year: "The plan is to work off [ ] every month. I believe based on how things are going, she will have another [ ] by Boston that will naturally come off." (The [ ]s represent redacted numbers.)

    Salazar responds with "I don't want her shooting for something she can't hit." That's not the same as insisting that he's happy with her weight. I have overweight friends trying to slim down and I wouldn't want them being unrealistic about the pace at which they can do it. And this is the full extent of Salazar's supposed acceptance of Kara's size at the time.

    At the very end of the exchange with the nutritionist he even adds, "she was [ ] the week before at Nike so she's plateaued a little." Why would a coach who was okay with her weight say such a thing? Hell, in his own bullet point in his "open letter" he states that "I fully supported Karas efforts and did not want her to lose weight more quickly (emphasis mine)"

    The idea that Kara's weight was unquestionably a dead issue for Salazar at the time resides only in the heads of people who cannot or refuse to read Salazar's own words.

    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0248/8471/files/Exhibit_19.pdf

    Karas Nose wrote:
    3) She was misleading about Galen's Brussells AR.

    Misleading in what way? Did she lie and say he only ran 24 laps? Speculating that it was unlikely that an athlete who'd been feeling shitty could rebound fast enough to run as well as Rupp did in Belgium is not lying. At worst, it's being wrong.

    Karas Nose wrote:
    4) She was misleading about the circumstances for her NOP departure

    In what way?

    You should know by now how this works. When you make a factual claim that is in dispute, you make at least a token effort to support it with evidence.

    So, you yourself are a liar, or ignorant in the extreme, or both.

    Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6591809&page=12#ixzz3eVs511dG
    correct wrote:
    Oh come on! I'm not a PR person - you just like to accuse people who don't agree with you of being PR people.

    I don't think that you're a PR person. I think that very few of the people saying the kinds of things you did are, and that's not what I meant by "you guys." But many of "you" do sound eerily alike.

    correct wrote:
    Right now, I don't think they are coming off in the best light, particularly Kara Goucher.

    I genuinely wonder why people think this. Is it because she's withholding details, even though it's clear why this is in her pest interest? Is it because people think that Salazar's letter made her look dishonest? Is it because she hasn't said anything about "real" PEDs yet? This may be a dumb question since historically people haven't needed any reason to start bashing away at her, Fleshman and countless other elites.

    correct wrote:
    The testosterone gel has been explained, as has the asthma.

    Your use of the passive voice here suggests that you may not be entirely convinced of Salazar's honesty and motives. I prefer that people say, "Alberto has explained the testosterone gel and the asthma," so I can start arguing with them.

    correct wrote:
    There is simply no evidence and corroborating statements that I can see that justifies the amount of exposure this is getting.

    It's not getting any meaningful exposure in the United States outside the running community. I think that a group of combative housewives with dwarfism gets far too much exposure every time that show "Little Women" comes on. None of us can control what the media deems newsworthy.

    correct wrote:
    No one has ever actually seen any instances of direct doping either.

    Has any of them said that they haven't? People are fixated on the idea that anyone speaking against Salazar would have come out with everything he or she knows from the very start, an idea that for any number of obvious reasons is untenable.

    correct wrote:
    I still have an interest in distance running, though I no longer run much (is this allowed??).

    If it wasn't, 90 percent of us would be banned!

    correct wrote:
    I have also worked in environments where people work themselves up because of personal vendettas/bad blood, and before you know it a witch hunt ensues. I can see this happening here I'm afraid.
    I await more evidence, and am happy to be proven wrong IF actual evidence comes to light. But you should allow people to have divergent opinions from yours, and not be accused of being PR people.

    I think we at Letsrun need a formal term for invoking the term "witch hunt" along the lines of "Godwin's law."

    Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6591809&page=10#ixzz3eVsOnFkL


    Does this make sense? I did a super stack thread from page 11,12 1nd 14.
  • 280 Posts Later
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:40pm CDT
    re: Whom-Ville Whom
    Forum Index

    280 posts and we still have no idea who was threatened and by whom. It appears Kara has fibbed once again. I wish I was wrong.
  • Do your own footwork
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:43pm CDT
    re: 280 Posts Later
    Forum Index
    280 Posts Later wrote:
    280 posts and we still have no idea who was threatened and by whom. It appears Kara has fibbed once again. I wish I was wrong.

    WE? You mean the Freud PR workers don't know who to launch at attack on next: women preferred. You can't do the job Salazar is paying you for. Such a sad affair.
  • KMB
    registered
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:48pm CDT
    re: MikeM
    Forum Index
    MikeM wrote:
    The point is they did post their suspicions to a TV source you dolt! So they went to USADA/WADA and after talking to them were not happy and then went to the media. How oblivious are you?

    As fun as it is to see you violently belching smoke out of every orifice, you would settle down a little, you might be able to understand what I actually wrote.

    Kara and Adam have given TV interviews. Kara gave an interview yesterday morning that was posted on Flotrack. Magness, obviously, has gone on camera as well.

    Salazar's "rebuttal" was a screed on a Web site. It did not admit of feedback, input or calls for clarification or elaboration. He has not given any interviews to any impartial reporters, only to Ken Goe, his longtime staunch ally. He has not gone on camera and fielded questions. That is manipulating the media, though avoidance of interactive media.

    MikeM wrote:
    Yeah, making claims at the USATF meet with not facts, that certainly isn't screaming for 'look at me...please believe me.'

    Did you come out of a long coma just this morning and find yourself raving uncontrollably about Kara Goucher?

    She didn't call a press conference yesterday. She had a tape recorders and mikes thrust in her face after her race and answered what she was asked. That's attention-whoring?

    MikeM wrote:
    You my friend are obtuse. If Salazar is found to be guilty, then I hope he is banned. But if not, this whole media circus brought on by people WHO HAD ALREADY GONE TO USADA/WADA was entirely media driven because they hadn't gotten the result they wanted.

    You are blubbering on with no more knowledge, eloquence or sense than a barnyard animal. I like it.

    You're merely assuming the Gouchers went to the media and not the other way around. Either way, if the media wasn't interested in what they had to say, the media wouldn't have run with the story. Why don't you write letters to Pro Publica and the BBC demanding that they select topics that are more satisfying to you personally?

    Quite simply, it's not up to you to decide what's newsworthy and what isn't. If you're offended or bored by this kind of talk, you may very well be in the wrong place.

    MikeM wrote:
    So, as big of a prick as many people think Alberto is, rational people are not happy about the media circus that is surrounding this because it does seem more like a witch hunt/media circus/Soap Opera.

    The last thing you should be doing is trying to serve as a spokesman for rational people.

    You say you want to see Salazar punished if it turns out he's guilty. If the Gouchers or someone else in the thick of this does produce evidence sufficient to bring this about, will you admit that there was therefore never a "witch hunt" in the first place?

    If you were the patient person you so laughably claim to be, you would be willing to wait for further information to emerge, rather than piss and moan that Kara isn't telling everything she knows all at once. You're like a guy who watches a whole new season of Orange is the New Black within two days of its release and starts bitching within a week that the producers are dragging their feet in terms of further episodes.

    MikeM wrote:
    So seriously, knock off your s**t and pull your head out of your butt. Not many people are liking the Gouchers right now and it has nothing to do with liking Alberto or the NOP. Has Magness been out in full force in the media? No. Hence no rip Steve M threads. Get that? Or is that just to understand?

    I'll take what little of that is comprehensible under advisement. And I like your appeal to populism here -- a lot of Letsrun trolls aren't liking the Gouchers, ergo they're in the wrong. Finally, if you think there are no "rip Steve M threads" on the board at the moment, it's for the same reason you don't have a clue about anything else. You skim rather than read, and you bitch mindlessly about things outside the scope of the topic. Sadly, you seem incapable of doing any better than this.
  • Nature Scientist
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:48pm CDT
    re: 280 Posts Later
    Forum Index
    280 Posts Later wrote:

    280 posts and we still have no idea who was threatened and by whom. It appears Kara has fibbed once again. I wish I was wrong.


    We learned you can't put a saddle on an Elk.
  • Tyrone ReXXXing
    registered
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:50pm CDT
    re: KMB
    Forum Index
    KMB wrote:

    Salazar has been untruthful both in his "letter" and with regard to various other things over the years (check out the thread from 2006 someone dug up today -- http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1469164). I have no reason to believe that Kara would lie about something so mundane, nor do I have any special reason to trust her. So it comes down to whether to believe an established serial liar or or a neutral party.
    Could you specifically tell me what Al lied about in his "letter" ?? Is it the date of the Cytomel claim? Please don't say "yes", or we are chasing our tails here. If something else, tell me what is undeniably a lie in his letter.

    As far as the old thread, what is an absolute lie in that thread? I looked at it but am not sure what you are pointing me to. Thx.

    KMB wrote:
    [quote]Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
    Salazar may be lying. But nothing the Gouchers have said is even minor proof of a doping program.

    I absolutely agree. You're wrong to equate my stating that Kara Goucher hasn't been found to have lied in this fiasco with my stating that she has offered evidence that Salazar was running a full-scale doping operation. Had she done so already, I don't think we'd be having this little chat.

    Ok then, however my impression was, and I don't think it is an incorrect one, that you have been using the Goucher accusations as part of an overall picture that strongly suggests that Al/Rupp were involved in some illegal PED use. I don't think anything strongly suggest this yet, and I certainly don't think anything the Gouchers have said helps the "Al and Rupp have been cheating to some extent" viewpoint. Their Cytomel and "Rupp ran really fast after he told us he was tired" BOMBSHELLS are, in reality, barely as explosive as some soggy Rice Krispies.
  • Beg Pardon
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 10:56pm CDT
    re: Nature Scientist
    Forum Index
    Nature Scientist wrote:

    280 Posts Later wrote:

    280 posts and we still have no idea who was threatened and by whom. It appears Kara has fibbed once again. I wish I was wrong.

    We learned you can't put a saddle on an Elk.


    I beg your pardon!

    http://p2.la-img.com/241/10081/2255003_1_l.jpg
  • Stupid beyond words
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 11:07pm CDT
    re: Do your own footwork
    Forum Index
    Do your own footwork wrote:

    280 Posts Later wrote:
    280 posts and we still have no idea who was threatened and by whom. It appears Kara has fibbed once again. I wish I was wrong.

    WE? You mean the Freud PR workers don't know who to launch at attack on next: women preferred. You can't do the job Salazar is paying you for. Such a sad affair.


    WTF, a person who has made a bunch of accusations with extremely limited evidence makes another one without identifying who made said "threats" and to whom they were made and you think someone other than the person who launches this accusation has the responsibility to answer those obvious questions?

    And stop already with all the ad hominem (you're a pr shill) attacks. It's really pathetic that anyone who challenges Goucher's claims or expresses an opinion reflective of their lack of belief in Goucher's story they are immediately attacked as a pr shill/drone. As a matter of fact I run a small tech services company and have no connection to NOP or Goucher.
  • Whom-Ville Whom
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 11:12pm CDT
    re: The Donger
    Forum Index
    The Donger wrote:

    Whom-Ville Whom wrote:

    The Donger wrote:

    What was the threat and who made it?

    Is it your belief that I am Kara Goucher?

    If yes, you are an idiot.

    If no, then you are asking the wrong person...and you are an idiot.


    You were the last post when I hit reply moron.



    Is it your belief that Kara Goucher is posting here?

    If yes, you are an idiot.

    If no, then you are asking the wrong people...and you are an idiot
  • Whom-Ville Whom
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 11:14pm CDT
    re: 280 Posts Later
    Forum Index
    280 Posts Later wrote:

    280 posts and we still have no idea who was threatened and by whom. It appears Kara has fibbed once again. I wish I was wrong.

    Is it your belief that Kara Goucher is posting here?

    If yes, you are an idiot.

    If no, then you are asking the wrong people...and you are an idiot
  • KMB
    registered
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 11:22pm CDT
    re: Tyrone ReXXXing
    Forum Index
    Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
    Could you specifically tell me what Al lied about in his "letter" ?? Is it the date of the Cytomel claim? Please don't say "yes", or we are chasing our tails here. If something else, tell me what is undeniably a lie in his letter.

    He didn't tell any obvious whoppers -- he's not that stupid. He told some lies designed for easy backpedaling owing to intentionally vague wording on his part.

    One example is in the section titled "THYROID AND ASTHMA MEDICINE IN THE OREGON PROJECT." He says at the start of this section, "Of 55 athletes only 5 have been diagnosed with hypothyroidism after I had started coaching them (9.1%)." Yet in a 2013 WSJ article, he says that 5 of 30 NOP members have been diagnosed as hypothyroid:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323550604578412913149043072

    I'm pretty confident that the NOP hasn't added members at the rate of one per month between April 2013 and the present.

    The rationale behind factitiously inflating the number of NOP members if obvious": It creates the impression of a lower rate of thyroid-medication use. 5/55 = 9.1% (and that doesn't include Kara); 5/30 = 17%. Both figures grossly exceed the U.S. prevalence of (depending on your source) 0.3% to 2%.

    Now, later in this section he writes, "So the record is clear, I have coached 55 professional athletes in my career." He can therefore claim if challenged on the 55-in-the-NOP figure that he was talking about not just NOP members but others such as Slaney.

    Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
    As far as the old thread, what is an absolute lie in that thread? I looked at it but am not sure what you are pointing me to. Thx.

    He says he knew nothing about PED use by distance runners when he was himself running marathons, which is a joke on several levels.

    He claims he held the WR in the marathon, which is simply and demonstrably wrong, and not the sort of thing one is apt to get wrong by accident.

    Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
    Ok then, however my impression was, and I don't think it is an incorrect one, that you have been using the Goucher accusations as part of an overall picture that strongly suggests that Al/Rupp were involved in some illegal PED use. I don't think anything strongly suggest this yet, and I certainly don't think anything the Gouchers have said helps the "Al and Rupp have been cheating to some extent" viewpoint. Their Cytomel and "Rupp ran really fast after he told us he was tired" BOMBSHELLS are, in reality, barely as explosive as some soggy Rice Krispies.

    I'm not trying to divine anything more from what I have seen than what I believe is justified. I very strongly believe that Salazar has been thoroughly dishonest at almost every point in this saga and I have done my best to explain why. This is evidence of nothing more than Salazar not being an honest guy, of lying about various aspects of the current mess. But because of this, if evidence of bona fide hardcore doping does emerge, I won't even blink. In fact, I'll be very surprised if this does not happen.

    That is all.
  • Another PR Drone
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 11:29pm CDT
    re: Stupid beyond words
    Forum Index
    Stupid beyond words wrote:
    WTF ... I run a small tech services company and have no connection to NOP or Goucher.

    You are pro-doping at any costs. Please go away.
  • KMB
    registered
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 11:51pm CDT
    re: Stupid beyond words
    Forum Index
    Stupid beyond words wrote:
    WTF, a person who has made a bunch of accusations with extremely limited evidence makes another one without identifying who made said "threats" and to whom they were made and you think someone other than the person who launches this accusation has the responsibility to answer those obvious questions?

    This probably means "What the fůck, a person who has made a bunch of accusations in the absence of supporting evidence makes another one without identifying either the person doing the threatening or the target of his threats. and you think that someone other than the accuser is responsible for figuring out who's involved?"

    I'm curious only about one thing. If Kara didn't name the person she said had made threats, doesn't that make it a statement rather than an accusation?

    If I am standing in the middle of a crowded room and become acutely aware of the sulfurous odor of last night's kale and crabcakes, and I blurt out, "Jesus Christ, someone broke ass in here!", have I made an accusation? No. But if I turn to rojo's mom and say, "Next time you need to do that, Mrs. Johnson, please hang your backside out yonder window," then I am clearly accusing someone specific of farting.
  • Grammar Police
    5 years ago 06/29/2015 11:55pm CDT
    re: Another PR Drone
    Forum Index

    Bringing the thread back to "threats":

    Start a sentence with the words "You shouldn't have..." or the more straightforward "why the f**k did you..." and some people will interpret that as a threat no matter how friendly your tone.

    An easy experiment you can perform on your collegues - if you're ready to go see HR and/or your manager later in the day...
  • FARFLUNG
    5 years ago 06/30/2015 12:05am CDT
    re: Beg Pardon
    Forum Index

    I'm sorry, but that is an Abbysinian Okapiti, notoriously docile and easy to saddle up, especially under cold, snowy conditions. An actual Elk would render that same man into a greasy red spot in the road were he to approach with a saddle.



    Beg Pardon wrote:

    Nature Scientist wrote:

    280 Posts Later wrote:

    280 posts and we still have no idea who was threatened and by whom. It appears Kara has fibbed once again. I wish I was wrong.

    We learned you can't put a saddle on an Elk.


    I beg your pardon!

    http://p2.la-img.com/241/10081/2255003_1_l.jpg
  • This thread don't make sense
    5 years ago 06/30/2015 12:32am CDT
    re: Reader of Threads
    Forum Index
    Reader of Threads wrote:
    Does this make sense? I did a super stack thread from page 11,12 1nd 14.

    None of this thread makes sense any more, it's nearly as bad as the Mike Rossi thread and that is bad.
  • Another PR Drone
    5 years ago 06/30/2015 12:38am CDT
    re: Grammar Police
    Forum Index
    Grammar Police wrote:
    Bringing the thread back to "threats":

    Start a sentence with the words "You shouldn't have..." or the more straightforward "why the f**k did you..." and some people will interpret that as a threat no matter how friendly your tone.

    An easy experiment you can perform on your collegues - if you're ready to go see HR and/or your manager later in the day...

    Sorry about your gnarly British teeth, [email protected]. It's "tooth" by the way, not "toth".
  • Al's attack goons
    5 years ago 06/30/2015 12:40am CDT
    re: This thread don't make sense
    Forum Index
    This thread don't make sense wrote:

    Reader of Threads wrote:
    Does this make sense? I did a super stack thread from page 11,12 1nd 14.

    None of this thread makes sense any more, it's nearly as bad as the Mike Rossi thread and that is bad.


    Salazar paid his public relations firm to go after Kara this week. He doesn't think Magness can hurt him much further. He is deathly afraid of what Kara is about to reveal.
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