I'm surprised the travel doesn't take its toll. Being in NYC for a couple days, then home, then Seattle for 2-3 days is lot for anyone. Those kids do an amazing job adjusting.
I'm surprised the travel doesn't take its toll. Being in NYC for a couple days, then home, then Seattle for 2-3 days is lot for anyone. Those kids do an amazing job adjusting.
Nutjob Alert wrote:
Tired? Who do you coach, yourself to 4 hour marathons? Grant was not a little tired. He's young and had plenty of time in between. Please do us all a favor and go back to your local 5k group meetings, you'll sound more intelligent there. A TrackCoach?, are you serious?
TrackCoach wrote:He was probably a little tired after having run several high profile races with in 2 weeks. A 2x FLNC winner and sub-4 miler is with out a doubt better than 8:43.
I've done enough in my career as an athlete and coach to make a general statement that it is hard to string together several all out efforts with in a couple of weeks. That applies to dogs, horses world class, no class and even young phenoms. Btw, if you disagree, that's ok, but the insults weren't necessary.
I agree. You are wrong. He ran 2 miles and finished 1 second out of first, he didn't lose by 15 seconds. There's a difference and any real coach would know that. 8:43 and now it's because he's tired. He pr'd man.
TrackCoach wrote:
Nutjob Alert wrote:Tired? Who do you coach, yourself to 4 hour marathons? Grant was not a little tired. He's young and had plenty of time in between. Please do us all a favor and go back to your local 5k group meetings, you'll sound more intelligent there. A TrackCoach?, are you serious?
I've done enough in my career as an athlete and coach to make a general statement that it is hard to string together several all out efforts with in a couple of weeks. That applies to dogs, horses world class, no class and even young phenoms. Btw, if you disagree, that's ok, but the insults weren't necessary.
Hhsshehsbe wrote:
This is a great thread. Ritz is a legend ONLY for XC/5k on the track. NOT the 2mile and obviously not the mile.
If fisher hasn't raced so much prior to Brooks, it would've been closer
Says who? He won the National Outdoor Championship three years straight. Altherough that has only been going on fro about 20 years, he is the only one. Also he ran 8:41.10 as a junior (in a meet where he ran 4 races). He ran 8:48 indoors in the middle of a training week. He ran 8:43 at State Meet (50 degrees and windy) after going out in 2:08/4:17 (trying to best Nelson's 8:36y). He led from the first step.
9:01y as a soph and National Champ.
8:41.10 as a junior and National Champ.
8:43.xx as a senior and National Champ.
At the time he ran 8:41m only Nelson, Virgin and Pre had run faster and they did it as seniors.
He made the mistake of chasing the WJCCC medal and then chasing sub-13:44. Both of those hurt his racing schedule. Had he not done that I believe he would have gone sub-8:40 indoors and out and threatened sub-4:00.
8:43 is awesome & hurts him none. At his young age, finishing 2nd will probably help. Whatever caused him to lose, he can address.
Hunter running 8:42 with a :55 finish is simply insane. No way Ritz would've won.
ttc wrote:
8:43 is awesome & hurts him none. At his young age, finishing 2nd will probably help. Whatever caused him to lose, he can address.
Hunter running 8:42 with a :55 finish is simply insane. No way Ritz would've won.
Who said Ritz would have won? Not me.
newname wrote:
Hhsshehsbe wrote:This is a great thread. Ritz is a legend ONLY for XC/5k on the track. NOT the 2mile and obviously not the mile.
If fisher hasn't raced so much prior to Brooks, it would've been closer
Says who? He won the National Outdoor Championship three years straight. Altherough that has only been going on fro about 20 years, he is the only one. Also he ran 8:41.10 as a junior (in a meet where he ran 4 races). He ran 8:48 indoors in the middle of a training week. He ran 8:43 at State Meet (50 degrees and windy) after going out in 2:08/4:17 (trying to best Nelson's 8:36y). He led from the first step.
9:01y as a soph and National Champ.
8:41.10 as a junior and National Champ.
8:43.xx as a senior and National Champ.
At the time he ran 8:41m only Nelson, Virgin and Pre had run faster and they did it as seniors.
He made the mistake of chasing the WJCCC medal and then chasing sub-13:44. Both of those hurt his racing schedule. Had he not done that I believe he would have gone sub-8:40 indoors and out and threatened sub-4:00.
You guys realize that the 13:44.7 that Ritz ran is 8:48 pace at 3200m, right? I believe he was a touch ahead of that pace though in that race, so something like 8:46. One would have to think he was capable of breaking 8:40 if he gave it a real shot and conditiins were right (Brooks PR didn't exist then).
Ritzensider wrote:
newname wrote:Says who? He won the National Outdoor Championship three years straight. Altherough that has only been going on fro about 20 years, he is the only one. Also he ran 8:41.10 as a junior (in a meet where he ran 4 races). He ran 8:48 indoors in the middle of a training week. He ran 8:43 at State Meet (50 degrees and windy) after going out in 2:08/4:17 (trying to best Nelson's 8:36y). He led from the first step.
9:01y as a soph and National Champ.
8:41.10 as a junior and National Champ.
8:43.xx as a senior and National Champ.
At the time he ran 8:41m only Nelson, Virgin and Pre had run faster and they did it as seniors.
He made the mistake of chasing the WJCCC medal and then chasing sub-13:44. Both of those hurt his racing schedule. Had he not done that I believe he would have gone sub-8:40 indoors and out and threatened sub-4:00.
You guys realize that the 13:44.7 that Ritz ran is 8:48 pace at 3200m, right? I believe he was a touch ahead of that pace though in that race, so something like 8:46. One would have to think he was capable of breaking 8:40 if he gave it a real shot and conditiins were right (Brooks PR didn't exist then).
I actually didn't know 13:44 was 8:48 3,200 pace. That's nuts. Yes, Ritz probably could've run faster than his 2-mile HS PR indicates.
Also, I'm sure Chapa could've run faster than his 2-mile PR indicated.
The battle of the GFs
German Fernandez vs. Grant Fisher
Championship Racing: Advantage Fisher
Excellence in Mile: Advantage Fisher
Excellence in 2 Mile: Advantage Fernandez
Excellence in XC: Advantage Fernandez (Fisher really close here, but that 14:24 at CA State meet Woodward Park is one of the top 3 best all time XC performances only comparable to Ritz's two best marks)
And the winner:
German Fernandez because of the double 4:00, 8:34 which is by far the best double in history (only 2 hours between races) led from the gun in both races.
Chapa had better stamina but not better speed. His best event in HS was 10000m and he could not have run too close to 8:40 2mi.
He developed speed-side as a collegiate after he dropped his mileage.
Ritz had great stamina and his 5000m pace was roughly
1 sec/lap slower than his 3200m, so 8:42 capability, not much more.
Like Chapa the conversions would be misleading.
As for Fisher he ran like an idiot against Hunter and lost by running extra meters.
Neither Hunter nor Fisher were tired. They ran 54/55 on lap which indicates low-8:30's fitness (in paced race), which is about equivalent to Fisher's 3:59.
Hunter is right on track to the next prep sub-4 and perhaps taking down 8:29 (which I consider a suspicious record).
In my opinion Fisher asked to lose the race. He sat and let the guys control the pace. He should have moved up front at the mile and made those dudes hurt. I was in the stands and was thinking he could lose if it comes down to a kick. G. Fernandez and Verbicas went after their records from the gun. GF hurt that kid from Utah Luke P in the first mile at New Balance. It is hard to beat a kid who goes out in 4:16 the first mile. At Brooks they go out in 4:26-27. That probably felt like a tempo for Fisher. Shame on him if it did. Pound these kids!
haha 28:13 10k is sick.. Chapa ran the first 2m in 9:01. He did not run the 2m his senior of his school. He was concentrating on trying to make '76 Olympic team. He did run 4:05y I believe that year to win Indiana state meet.
GF > GF wrote:
The battle of the GFs
German Fernandez vs. Grant Fisher
Championship Racing: Advantage Fisher
Excellence in Mile: Advantage Fisher
Excellence in 2 Mile: Advantage Fernandez
Excellence in XC: Advantage Fernandez (Fisher really close here, but that 14:24 at CA State meet Woodward Park is one of the top 3 best all time XC performances only comparable to Ritz's two best marks)
And the winner:
German Fernandez because of the double 4:00, 8:34 which is by far the best double in history (only 2 hours between races) led from the gun in both races.
Out of curiosity, what would you say the two best Ritz performances are? I'm guessing one is that 14:10 at States (?). I've never heard of a faster XC 5K than that. The other is his FL course record? I forget a lot of XC performances.
Didn't Webb have a few crazy XC times? I seem to remember him running a very fast 3-mile in HS. He obviously wasn't as good as Ritz in XC, but still. Ritz was the all-time best HS XC runner.
Kalashnikov wrote:
Neither Hunter nor Fisher were tired. They ran 54/55 on lap which indicates low-8:30's fitness (in paced race), which is about equivalent to Fisher's 3:59.
Hunter is right on track to the next prep sub-4 and perhaps taking down 8:29 (which I consider a suspicious record).
I'd love to see Hunter get some national records next year. I know he already has some class records, but I'd love to see him get a legit record. The 2-mile seems like his best shot (isn't the 3K record also the same as the 2-mile, as in they happened in the same race?), although 8:29 is brutally hard. Out of curiosity, why do you think 8:29 is a suspicious record? Just curious.
Has Hunter ever run any track 5Ks? I guess Rupp got the 5K because Salazar got him in some pro races in HS.
GoldenMiles wrote:
Kalashnikov wrote:Neither Hunter nor Fisher were tired. They ran 54/55 on lap which indicates low-8:30's fitness (in paced race), which is about equivalent to Fisher's 3:59.
Hunter is right on track to the next prep sub-4 and perhaps taking down 8:29 (which I consider a suspicious record).
I'd love to see Hunter get some national records next year. I know he already has some class records, but I'd love to see him get a legit record. The 2-mile seems like his best shot (isn't the 3K record also the same as the 2-mile, as in they happened in the same race?), although 8:29 is brutally hard. Out of curiosity, why do you think 8:29 is a suspicious record? Just curious.
Has Hunter ever run any track 5Ks? I guess Rupp got the 5K because Salazar got him in some pro races in HS.
I don't think there was a separate camera to get LV's 3k split when he set the 2 mile record. However, there was for the prior Fernandez's record: 7:59.83 en route to his 8:34.40y
In 1976, Chapa first gained fame as one of the U.S.A.'s great high school distance runners, setting the still-standing national high school record in the 10,000 meters, in 28:32.1. That same year he also won the Indiana state mile in 4:04.20.... so he did have speed. Once again, Chapa did not contest the 2m his senior year in high school. He ran the 10k several times like the Drake Relays in April of 1976. His coach let the third member of the famed member of the Hammond HS sub 9:00 group Tim Keough run the 2m at state. Keough was a 8:52 2miler that year. Imagine running that time and having to sit in the stands. Chapa was a selfless dude indeed
Oh? wrote:
GoldenMiles wrote:I'd love to see Hunter get some national records next year. I know he already has some class records, but I'd love to see him get a legit record. The 2-mile seems like his best shot (isn't the 3K record also the same as the 2-mile, as in they happened in the same race?), although 8:29 is brutally hard. Out of curiosity, why do you think 8:29 is a suspicious record? Just curious.
Has Hunter ever run any track 5Ks? I guess Rupp got the 5K because Salazar got him in some pro races in HS.
I don't think there was a separate camera to get LV's 3k split when he set the 2 mile record. However, there was for the prior Fernandez's record: 7:59.83 en route to his 8:34.40y
True. I remembered there was a 7:59 by either Fernandez or LV when they lowered the 2-mile record (I guess Fernandez never got the 2-mile record, but you know what I mean).
Sucks for LV they didn't get the 3K record, but I doubt he care.
Regarding LV, recall that he was also a multiple time Dream Mile winner and won NXN as well as back to back Footlocker titles. It's pathetic that the Brothers Johnson promote the non-American factor in regards to him. He went to American schools since 4th grade or so. Represented the USA in world JR Triathlon (which he also won).
TrackCoach wrote:
the insults weren't necessary.
The insults were necessary since he hadn't got anything else noteworthy to say.
Joe Newton (iirc) said that a runner would only be in absolute top shape in about 4 races every year. Some fatigue at the end of the season isn't exactly something new.