New Allegations- "Salazar had bag of needles"

*stipe wrote:

SO TO CLARIFY... ARGUABLY THE GREATEST DISTANCE RUNNER IN AMERICAN HISTORY (OLYMPIC MEDALIST, AMERICAN RECORD HOLDER) SUFFERED FROM ASTHMA, LOW TESTOSTERONE, ALLERGIES, THYROID, DEHYDRATION TO THE EXTENT THAT HE NEEDED MULTIPLE PRESCRIPTIONS, SYRINGES, INHALERS, IVS, MASKS, ETC... TO BECOME THE SUCCESSFUL CLEAN RUNNER THAT HE IS TODAY.

Thank you. Sometimes you just have to step back and look at the big picture. What Galen Rupp has done on the world stage would be amazing for any runner. For a guy whose allergies are so debilitating that he frequently can't run races in his own hometown, and whose thyroid is out of whack, and who is unable to say with any certainty whether or not he will even show up to a given race more than an hour in advance, it's mind-boggling.

Yet, despite all of these infirmities and a very high training volume, the dude never seems to get injured and improves every year. Makes sense.

I'm completely amazed by two things.

1. That anyone would believe that there are any high caliber clean athletes in track and field.

2. That it would be so difficult to believe that a vial in the fridge labeled 'allergy 1' or 'allergy 2' might just be for his allergies. Hell, I've got one in my fridge.

On point 2 ..... why would your doctor take off official labelling as required by law to scrawl the words 'allergy 1' on it?

And why would Galen need to do this himself? Is he that thick that he cant learn the name of 2 different medicines and remember which one treats which allergy?

So rather than try to remember just two things, he would rather spend all his time constantly ripping off official labels on vials and then replacing them with his own?

I very much doubt the vials in your fridge have their label ripped off and you've put a new one saying 'Allergy'. Complete lie that is.

Allergy 1: EPO

Allergy 2: EPO

Mr I wrote:

On point 2 ..... why would your doctor take off official labelling as required by law to scrawl the words 'allergy 1' on it?

And why would Galen need to do this himself? Is he that thick that he cant learn the name of 2 different medicines and remember which one treats which allergy?

xenon-everybody-hates-me-waah-waah-screams explained twhy. One shot in each arm. The stuff may have been poured from bigger containers into those two vials.

Bingo...

I just read through the thread and no doubt the labeling is what the issue is all about. Plenty of people take allergy meds weekly and it's not uncommon to have the doctor accommodate the patients unique lifestyle by having it shipped to other locations for the injections.

However, no doctor is going to risk the penalties that come with giving out unmarked vials for a simple allergy prescription. If it did come with labels what would the benefit be for Salazar or Rupp to remove the labels and either leave the vial blank or add their own that says Allergy 1 and Allergy 2.

Then I come back to the shipment of pills in hollowed out books and a different shipment from his wife hiding pills within a magazine. Too many weird things are happening surround pills and vials for me to think that it's all just coincidence and they aren't hiding anything. That's my personal opinion though and it's not worth much. Plus just the huge number of people that have come forward makes the entire situation too hard to look past and give the benefit of the doubt to Salazar. Can he really prove that 17 people are all lying and that there is no truth that he has been abusing the TUE system and providing drugs to Galen? Guess we will all find out soon enough....

I did ask my allergist if there are any regulations about labeling allergy serum vials and if the labeling is unusual or illegal. Yet to hear back.

This. When multiple runners come down with "thyroid" problems, something is wrong.I suffered from Graves Disease (hyper), and I can tell you, once a thyroid patient, always a thyroid patient. When I was first diagnosed, I was a very sick person. There were times when I was making weekly visits to the doctor having my blood drawn to get my meds right. At any moment, your thryoid function could change, symptoms come back, and back to the doctor you go. Not to mention the meds I took could cause my white blood cell count to go down, forcing me back to the lab anytime I got sick to make sure my count was good. Mercifully, after three years, the Graves went dormant, and now I have normal function. However, I will need my levels checked for the rest of my life, as at anytime the Graves could return, or my thyroid could just go kaput because of what it endured. So why am I skeptical of all these thyroid problems? Because the only symptoms I've ever heard these runners complain of is fatigue, as if a heavy training load wouldn't cause that. When you have legitimate thyroid problems, you can sit on your couch all day and still be exhausted. Where's the goiter, the hair falling out, the dry skin, the unexplained weight gain, joint pain and swelling, puffy face, hoarseness, depression? And how lucky they are to just visit some doctor in Houston and take some medication to fix the issue, rather than struggle with the problem for years as so many others do. Not only that, there are so many - both Goucher's, Shalane, Rupp, Hall, Carl Lewis, Begley, Kennedy, Smyth (not all patients of Dr. Brown I should add). All suffering from a middle aged woman's problem? One or two may be legitimate, but the odds that all of them have hypothyroidism are fairly astronomical. Does any other country's runners have such a high rate of thyroids issues?Dont believe me? Speak with an endocrinologist or an immunologist. I have. A.) the ones I spoke with know of no legitimate study that confirms intense exercise causes hypothyroidism. B.) small doses of thyroid hormone can cause weight loss and may help with endurance. These people I spoke with aren't runners or track fans and don't really give a s#*t what these athletes are swallowing, either. They aren't going to voice their skepticism out of a loyalty to a clean sport. They have more important things going on in their offices and labs than what Nike does in theirs.

How many of the same people claiming that neither John Stiner nor the Daily Mail can't be trusted would happily believe a quote in that very paper from John Stiner's ex-wife asserting that he flat-out made up the whole story because he was high on ketamine the whole thime? Even knowing that John Stiner's story is corroborated, at least in part, by Steve Magness and one other (as yet unnamed) person who spent time in that Park City rental back in 2007, how many of you would quickly forget your bias against this hapless tabloid if it suddenly printed exculpatory material, however ludicrous?

From the looks of it, maybe all of you. Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing. The same phenomenon explains why some of the Bible literalists out there yelling about radioisotope dating and most of modern cosmology being completely unreliable are quick to embrace the findings of any "scientist" who appears on the verge of "proving" that a chunk of wood in Turkey is part of Noah's Ark, or that the world is less than 10,000 years old.

At least Ryan Foreman willing to go full bore and accuse the Daily Mail of fabricating quotes, reminding the board that if everyone here with a lick of sense only reads more closely, they will see things his way. That's commitment!

This Emotional Life wrote:

James Naismith Li wrote:

Magness is a credible witness, his evidence just isn't conclusive.

The average person lies 4 times in every 2.5 minutes of conversation. --This Emotional Life, PBS

80% of people tested, at multiple sites, will lie and cheat to steal, if they think they 100% can't get caught. --Dan Ariely, Behavioral Economist.

Yeah, Magness is a credible witness. He'd never lie. Ever. Ever. He's the Jesus of Running Science. What, pray tell, would Jesus do?

What are you trying to say? That there is no such thing as a credible witness because everyone lies, including Salazar and Rupp?

I didn't say he would never lie, so you are attacking positions that aren't made. I said he is a credible witness, which he IS.

Do people really think that 17 people have got together and checked their facts with each other? the BBC don't put out programmes on a whim especially given the way the law has changed in the UK the last few years against the press. My guess is you have seen about 10% of the evidence so far, this DailyMail story is a money maker for the therapist but that is all, Epstein is not an idiot and Daly has won many awards for his journalism, do you think they are going to leave themselves wide open to attack? This story has only just started and the people out there who seem to think it will blow over are nuts.

What if he identifies as a winner and has a severe allergy to losing? Surely that would justify a TUE for substances to prevent his allergy from flaring up?

So...

Why didn't Epstein include the part about Stiner having to ship the vials in his own story? The 2 vials were sent at the same time as the Androgel, and he included that part. Did Epstein himself have doubts about the vials?

Man Overboard wrote:

So...

Why didn't Epstein include the part about Stiner having to ship the vials in his own story? The 2 vials were sent at the same time as the Androgel, and he included that part. Did Epstein himself have doubts about the vials?

Possibly releasing regular tidbits of information to make it difficult for Al Sal to respond. If Al Sal makes a statement which then conflicts with further evidence it makes him look worse.

They are slowly releasing all the info to keep the Salazar camp scrambling and rewriting their story line. Ideally Salazar would have responded already so that the next article could contradict what he has to say, but they have to keep the story pressing forward while its center stage. Expect another article late next week and my only hope is Salazar responds before it comes out because it's going to make him look foolish.

The documentary wasn't going to be a 2 hour video so they had to be selective and leave things out. Not that it wasn't going to be published ever, but it had to be slimmed down and as you will see soon enough, there was a lot more to tell.

rojo wrote:

planet of the apes wrote:

Did the pill bottle that Kara Goucher has actually have anything still in it? What good is an EMPTY pill bottle? If it isn't empty why don't they just send whatever is in it to a lab to get tested? That whole thing sounds shady.

John Stiner's ex-wife, (who worked on Salazar's athletes at the same time) said that he is full of shit. She said that she never saw anything other than Androgel.

Stiner told us about this story at the time. I haven't talked to Sarah about it.

Well, why don't you put your journalistic cap on and try contacting the ex wife. Better yet, why don't you spend a a few days "pretending" for a moment that this entire story is as fabricated as the Rolling Stone, UVA story. You want that Pullitzer for investigative journalism? Well, here's your chance. Suppose for a moment that all of these allegations are false. Suppose for a moment that Mr. Epstein omitted the numerous testimony from athletes that have steadfastly refuted all these claims or he simply didn't ask many upon many. Suppose for a minute that Goucher and Magness are not what they say they are and have other motives possibly both financially and personally - and perhaps there are people out there that know the truth. Suppose for a minute that Rupp is innocent and this has been a destructive, slanderous, and devastating experience to this young man and his family.

It's easy for a news entity to just circulate a story and piggy back upon the other. Let's see if you have the journalistic integrity to start asking the really difficult questions, which aren't if Rupp/Salazar are cheating, but are Goucher, Magness, Epstein, and Stiner knowingly lying.

I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but wouldn't mailing prescription drugs be a violation of federal law (the Controlled Substances Act)? Not sure if that would just subject Stiner/Magness to criminal liability, or if Salazar/Rupp could also be brought into the fray. Regardless, it seems like a pretty damning admission by those two. I certainly hope they get immunity so they can keep talking!

sure thing pal

hmm you compare this to the UVA story? That was one girl making a claim.. if this was one former athlete/coach making a claim it would easily be just a bad egg or other personal issue they are trying to get revenge for. However, if you are saying BBC is lying you are crazy and delusional. I'm sure Lance had the same type of followers that after every single article and book written about his doping they just simply chalked it up to everybody is lying and there is no way their hero could do such things. Time to get a grip with reality if you think all of these people are lying.

1. Stiner wasn't the only person to see the vials in the hotel room and another athlete said when he saw them there was more than just 2. How did Stiner get another athlete to lie to back up his story?

2. Jackie Aerson said she also saw the vial in the car left behind by Rupp. I wonder how much Magness is paying her to go along with his story?

3. How did Magness convince Salazar to copy him on an email to his wife getting her to ship pills hidden in a magazine marked documents?

4. Kara must have hired someone to forge Salazars handwriting on that prescription bottle that he gave her too.

Too busy to go over all the allegations against Salazar and how hard it would be to truly fabricate all of this with the amount of people involved and emails, photos, and receipts provided as evidence. It's simply impossible.