Josh Rohatinsky's Thoughts on Salazar: "Galens progression from 2006-2012 was highly suspicious to me."

That's where you are wrong, the progression being discussed is being done so in consideration of possible evidence of PED assistance. Nobody on earth can convince me that Galen Rupp could be a 3:50.9 miler (indoor mind you) and run faster than Jim Ryun ever did outdoors. Nothing anyone can say is going to convince me ever of this being possible without serious aid.

Munt is Skewed wrote:

Will you still maintain that Salazar did nothing really bad, even if he turns out to have been an EPO provider

What are you talking about? Salazar admits to providing EPO in the form of altitude tents and houses. By lowering oxygen levels, the tents fool the body into producing more EPO.

track2015 wrote:

That's where you are wrong, the progression being discussed is being done so in consideration of possible evidence of PED assistance. Nobody on earth can convince me that Galen Rupp could be a 3:50.9 miler (indoor mind you) and run faster than Jim Ryun ever did outdoors. Nothing anyone can say is going to convince me ever of this being possible without serious aid.

Well that settles it. You won't be convinced, the case is over.

What about Cam Levins? 1500 meters: 3:36.88.

Jim Ryun 1500 meters: 3:33.1

It is entirely possible that over in Europe if Cam ever races a 1500 there that his 1500 PR will be really close to Ryuns. and Cam Levins is as far from a world-beater at the mile as I would thing. Would you be convinced then that comparing times across generations is pointless? Well lets consider Kyle Merber? 3:34.54 I guess I can say that Merber is about as talented as Ryun. Although that is an interesting question, I highly doubt it.

Your anecdote doesn't really bode well as there are a lot of runners, even people who don't specialize in the mile/800 that can put up 3:50 low times. They simply don't run them all the time or when peaked. Galen's 3:50.9, although super impressive, was also during a time when it seemed like they peaked way too early and did far too much speed.

In any case, you being convinced will have little to do with the allegations being substantiated or not. It will come down to a formal investigation. At this point, it seems like that won't be avoided, but it will be based on facts. I suspect he gets in trouble, but not for violations on doping which seem like they would be impossible to prove. It will be something for the prescriptions he was doling out without a medical license and the TUE process issues.

A lot has been made of former runners coming forward. Thinking logically, wouldn't that be the case? How many former runners have left NOP and been happy? It should be pointed out that people like Puskedra, Ritz, etc and other who did leave on good terms have been silent, which I think can also be viewed as either good or bad. I am not sure what to think. A greater testimony to possible guilt is how many current NOP members have stayed. If there was doping, why would so many stay? Although it seems possible that there was a 'wall' put up between Galen and the rest of the team as this whole thing seems more focused on that, it just seems highly unlikely. Maybe not though given their long history together, but Galen doesn't strike me as someone who would dope. He is not a massive narcissist or ego-maniac and doesn't seem like a win-at-all-costs person. Just someone who works hard and smart.

For people thinking 'I work hard' is not a good notion for getting ahead, I think the ability to work hard is also a 'talent' people have. It is certainly not distributed equally across all great talents. Solinsky broke down, Ritz breaks down easily, Ryun was oft injured as well (and there are countless others). Imagine if Ryun had actually stayed injury free? That is a really interesting though. Training has to be done efficiently as running hard too often is going to produce negative results. When is the last time Galen was truly hurt? His consistent training blocks maybe are a greater testament to his true talent of not breaking down. Levins seems like this as well. This consistency is what is more remarkable and probably has a lot to do with these guys running so fast. Alter G's, supplements, massages, etc.

Roelants wrote:

A couple of problems with your logic here.

1. 13:30. I think he was in shape to run well below that earlier. Also, Solinsky went from 13:12 (13:18 year before to 12:55 in one year. Solinsky also improved his 1500 PR by six seconds one year. Ritz went from 13:16 to 12:56. Solinsky was close to winning DLs and Ritz was closing on a still good k. b.

Ritz's 13:16 was at USATF Nationals in high heat and humidity. Most seasoned observers thought that he was ready to go under 13:00 when he got in a Euro 5k. Hudson switched his emphasis to the marathon instead where he got a report 150k just to show. The 150k was probably the most ever paid for a 2:14 marathoner.

Solinsky went from a steady 13:30s runner to 13:12/7:36 right after graduation. (2007} This is not surprising since it is quite common for runners to make the drop after running in NCAA warm weather championship racing to Euro Friday Night Lights time trials. His bests in 2009 where 13:18/7:37. His big break was 2010 where he ran that 26:59 then followed up with 12:55, 12:56, 12:56.

track2015 wrote:

That's where you are wrong, the progression being discussed is being done so in consideration of possible evidence of PED assistance. Nobody on earth can convince me that Galen Rupp could be a 3:50.9 miler (indoor mind you) and run faster than Jim Ryun ever did outdoors. Nothing anyone can say is going to convince me ever of this being possible without serious aid.

So crazy and so stupid. How do you survive?

Roelants wrote:

As for progressions. Don't be so selective. Look at Paul Tergst's progression and he sprinted neck and neck with Haile.

You're actually making the case against NOP here

Tergat is suspected of going on epo around 1996 when he made a rapid progression over 10000m

What in the world does "Alberto's butt-boys" mean? Do you expect anyone who is not 150 years old like you to understand this? Maybe it was a mean and cool thing you said on your way to fight world war one. It means nothing now and nobody understands it. I would have to guess based on your user name that you are calling people gay. Is that right? Beat it old man. Nobody in this world cares what you have to say.

swum wrote:

Beat it old man. Nobody in this world cares what you have to say.

Seems you do cos you replied to him, and not only that you've really got your knickers in a knot over it. Take a deep breath and relax it won't all seem so bad by the morning.

Nice wrote:

Good job Josh, thanks for your insights. I believe every word.

Not so fast. He loses a ton of credibility when he claims the PED use was limited to Galen alone. It doesn't add up to what has been rumors and what was in the documentary. 20 to 1 josh was microdosing and is now in CYA mode.

Ok. Now Tergat is dirty but not Haile. And you ignored the Willis comment. selective again. We could do this all day.Let's take Craig Mottram. He went from 13:12 to 12:55 in one year. I can go find more.

Doping expert wrote:

Roelants wrote:

As for progressions. Don't be so selective. Look at Paul Tergst's progression and he sprinted neck and neck with Haile.

You're actually making the case against NOP here

Tergat is suspected of going on epo around 1996 when he made a rapid progression over 10000m

track2015 wrote:

That's where you are wrong, the progression being discussed is being done so in consideration of possible evidence of PED assistance. Nobody on earth can convince me that Galen Rupp could be a 3:50.9 miler (indoor mind you) and run faster than Jim Ryun ever did outdoors. Nothing anyone can say is going to convince me ever of this being possible without serious aid.

You don't think Rupp's superior 10k endurance is worth an extra two seconds over Goucher's 1500m PR?

Adam Goucher:

800m PR: 1:50.03

1500m PR: 3:36.64

Galen Rupp:

800m PR: 1:50.00

1500m: 3:34.15

Right. And anyone watching track when Galen's PR was still 13:30 knew he could go faster than 13:30. I think he closed a 10 k in 13:37 before that. I am not accusing Solinsky or Ritz and Rupp may be on drugs. I am showing the limits of these arguments. To your point about Rtiz focusing on marsthoning, that is just as true as Rupp focusing on distance and not miles until later in his career. Solinsky was stuck at 13:12 for a while. Then he broke through and was contending for DL wins. Mottram had a similar improvement. Levins has had great improvement. true and Mead had great improvement (10 seconds). Everyone has a story.

Honestly, you may be right. WADA and USADA disagree with you. I suggest you take your arguments up with them. Keep us updated on your efforts.

TUE nonsense wrote:

This TUE nonsense is merely a way for coaches and athletes to bypass the rules. Look if someone is sick enough to require thyroid medicine then competing in track should be far down on their list of priorities. Just get better. Come back to the sport clean and off any TUE meds and see what you can do on a level playing field. The TUE is no different than a top level rifle shooter with an eye condition claiming they need a laser range finder in order to compete. Or an amputee claiming their bionic legs are of no advantage. Coaches giving drugs to any athlete should be banned from the sport. It's abusive and wrong.

Abuse of TUEs, or their use for masking, is not acceptable to WADA-USADA.

BTW: How did you know Salazar's excuse will be that WADA said they told him did not abuse TUEs, when what they actually told is, as long as he didn't abuse TUEs? The details of the excuse are sill in work by the Salazar legal team.

Before anybody gets into Rupp's year over year progression people need to grasp something. Rupp is very, very talented. We can objectively see that from the workouts he was doing as a young soccer player before Salazar ever knew about him. He showed great and endurance and speed. Furthermore Rupp obviously displayed a high level of commitment and discipline to becoming an elite distance runner. Otherwise there is no way Salazar would have committed so much of his life to Rupp. That is just truth before you even get into any allegations of PEDs

Rupp's talent and ability is obvious yet so many of his current and former rivals don't want to admit it. They sound like George Costanza talking about Ted Danson.

This Seinfeld conversation with names replaced sums it up.

Rohatinsky: I'm sorry. I can't live knowing that Galen Rupp makes that much more than me. Who's he?

Jerry: He's somebody!

Rohatinsky: What about me?

Jerry: You're nobody.

Rohatinsky: Why him? Why not me?

Jerry: He's good, you're not.

Rohatinsky: I'm better than him!

Jerry: You're worse! Much much worse.

He's a Zoobie wrote:

The mormon age cheat from byu says, "I hate cheating. Period."

"age cheat"? What does that even mean?

Has he claimed to be a different age than his actual age in order to be eligible to compete?

Please enlighten us.

You can't seriously be saying that a professional career in track and field makes you "somebody". ROFL

I think everyone is missing the point, which is: Josh was in there close up and it felt a little odd? I'd consider his opinion as a support to the stories, it's obviously not meant to be the final word or even a condemnation of Sal. It is what it is and he himself would tell you that.

Josh was an exceptional runner in College and has done more in the sport than 99.9% of humanity, he hasn't done anything wrong by letting us in on a tiny bit of his experience. I'm grateful to hear his account because I can trust that he isn't exaggerating anything and shoots it straight.

Liar liar liar. wrote:

Not so fast. He loses a ton of credibility when he claims the PED use was limited to Galen alone. It doesn't add up to what has been rumors and what was in the documentary. 20 to 1 josh was microdosing and is now in CYA mode.

Great. Your odds setting is really compelling.

My point in those posts is simply that picking a time or improvement and saying you don't believe it because of sudden progress or late progress is not very compelling alone unless you are taking the sport to new places like FloJo.Evan Jäger, a steeper and 13:02 5000 guy, just ran a 3 plus second PR in the 1500 at 26. I think that is the same age as Rupp when he went 3:34. He has probably been working on mile speed to be strong enough to kick. It's not that different from what Rupp did. We have had US guys better than Rupp at 5000 and they have PRd pretty significantly. We have only had Solinsky and, now Derrick, even close in the 10000.