Josh Rohatinsky's Thoughts on Salazar: "Galens progression from 2006-2012 was highly suspicious to me."

The Co Founder Himself checks in with his completely unbiased thoughts on The Matter. (Are you pinching yourself these days, Rojo?)"Winning all the time"? Did I miss something? We are talking about Rupp, right? He DOESN'T win most of the time. Not even very often, actually.From IAAF, here we have Rupp 5000m progression:2015 13:12.36 Eugene, OR 29 MAY2014 13:00.99 Paris Saint-Denis 05 JUL2013 13:01.37 Bruxelles 06 SEP2012 12:58.90 Eugene, OR 02 JUN2011 13:06.86 Birmingham 10 JUL2010 13:07.35 Zürich (Letzigrund) 19 AUG2007 13:30.49 Eugene, OR 20 APR2006 14:00.94 Eugene, OR 14 MAY2005 13:44.72 Heusden-Zolder 23 JUL2004 13:37.91 Heusden-Zolder 31 JULWhere is the crazy drop that causes you so much concern, Rojo? 13:30 to 13:07 over 3 years? You actually make my point with:"Please tell me who has developed into a global force in recent years on the track? I can only think of MO and Galenin the long distances. Rupp ran in the 1330s in 2004. He didn't break 13:30 until 2009. He ran 1258 in 2012."Took a long ass time didn't it? And this gradual, careful development into late 20s world stage is somehow a sign of wrongdoing?Actually, Rojo, what exactly are you trying to say? I'm a little confused by your post.Thanks in advnce,Skuj.

After reading Rohatinsky's comments, I am actually more likely to believe Salazar.

You can split Rohatinsky's comments into two categories; 1) What he knows via first hand experience; and 2) What he doesn't know but is commenting on.

WHAT HE KNOWS:

a) Salazar did not ask him to seek a TUE. That's odd as he was there for 2 years and never asked to seek one, Salazar must only ask athletes who he believes may have a need for a TUE to consult a physician. If a coach recommending his teacher

b) AS recommened he take Testoboost. Where have we heard that before? That's right, that's the supplement AS says Galen was on in HS and someone mistook it as something else- that actually confirms what AS was saying, that his athletes take Testoboost.

c) AS lives in a gray area. This is kind of fact and kind of fiction. He didn't see it when he was training with him for two years and has subsequently come to this realization. However, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here as he was very close to the situation. Gray areas are not bad and are to be expected in a competitive sport. **For instance, I know a lot of athletes use coffee/caffeine before a race. In certain amounts caffeine is legal, and in certain amounts it is illegal. So, if the athlete is taking caffeine and still under the legal amount- I'd characterize this as a gray area, but so what? They are legal and believe it helps them race so are willing to take it.

d) Living and training with Galen for 2 years, JR NEVER saw anything illegal being done or heard anything illegal being discussed. That's quite telling.

WHAT Rohatinsky does not know:

a) Galen is cheating. This is the part of the diatribe that really bothers me. He has no evidence, witnessed nothing, and essentially admits it's pure speculation. He simply is simple speculating that, from Galen's progress, he is cheating. With all the good, worthwhile, items that JR has communicated in his fb blog, this is not one of them. This one smacks of jealousy. JR should just stick to what he knows is true and not speculate.

All in all, his personal account supports AS.

Will Dr Salazar produce copies of his MD license that allows him to have patient blood charts?

Will Dr Salazar produce copies of his Pharmacist license that allows distribute drugs?

Will Dr Salazar produce copies of his Pharmacy business license that allows him to drugs he can give away?

Can Dr Salazar do it?

Johnsonville wrote:

.. Galen is cheating. This is the part of the diatribe that really bothers me. He has no evidence, witnessed nothing, and essentially admits it's pure speculation. He simply is simple speculating that, from Galen's progress, he is cheating. With all the good, worthwhile, items that JR has communicated in his fb blog, this is not one of them. This one smacks of jealousy. JR should just stick to what he knows is true and not speculate.

All in all, his personal account supports AS.

Geez, A Duck, can't you mask your post any better that this?

A couple of problems with your logic here. 1. 13:30. I think he was in shape to run well below that earlier. Also, Solinsky went from 13:12 (13:18 year before to 12:55 in one year. Solinsky also improved his 1500 PR by six seconds one year. Ritz went from 13:16 to 12:56. Solinsky was close to winning DLs and Ritz was closing on a still good k. b. 2 Kick. Sure, Galen got better at the mile, he had a great kick in the Olympic 10000 but the field just did not have great kickers. The next years he got fourth. And the races actually were less hard than in past WCs and Olympics. Basically, Galen had agreat race at the perfect time and was fortunate there was no Jelian, Merga or Tanui there that day. He always is more likely to be 5th than 2nd. He still gets dropped when the kicking starts in the 5000. He loses a lot, especially at 5000 where he is still slower than 4 Americans . His 10000 at Pre may have been his best race.As for progressions. Don't be so selective. Look at Paul Tergst's progression and he sprinted neck and neck with Haile. Nick Willis just went under 3:30 last year for the first time.Galen may be doping but picking times doesn't really work well. There are always counter examples.

Skuj wrote:

Actually, Rojo, what exactly are you trying to say? I'm a little confused by your post.

That you've continually outed yourself as a moron.

Stop making sense. This is LRC for christsakes not a place for thoughtful posts.

What races does Galen win outside of US competition? I don't see him winning all the time.

With that said, he has certainly gotten faster. His kick is better. But in the NOP, who hasn't? I didn't think Hasay would improve much, but her kick and endurance has shown great improvement. Cam Levins, who was a mileage beast has run some impressive times for under distance races. His speed and endurance have improved. Ritz, who was not fleet of foot, under Salazar was running faster, and faster at the end of races. It is certainly the case that Centro has gotten faster (overall and kicking). This shows a greater emphasis on speed. Also, the comment on Haile G and other being 'born champs'? I am pretty sure that 13:37 and 4:01 in HS constitutes natural Talent. The thing that gets people to run as fast as Galen, Haile etc is extremely hardwork. Rojo, et al. maybe go back and read accounts of Haile G and his training on your own boards to see what kind of work these people put in. They weren't 'born' champions. Tons of people have good genetics. Very few have good genetics and also work hard. Also, by your accounts your own brother should not have run 28:0something. He was not "born" to go that fast. I would say 29 high to 28:0something sounds more like cheating to me. Or is that just Wejo putting in the work? All the BS that you guys have on training and getting faster. Is that true or is JK and the training you talk about (which the NOP does...high mileage and good core aerobic work) is that the key to success or not? I guess I love Wejos story as much as Galens. I find them to be similarly inspiring. I like the fact that wejo didn't use altitude tents or supplements, but I am not going to disparage Galen for doing so.

I agree Salazar and all pros simply need to be more transparent about what they are taking, TUEs, use of altitude chambers, etc. I am not certain about Galen cheating, but all the 'evidence' that people have, amounts to things being circumstantial at best. I do, however want to hear what AlSal personally says and outlines as that might change my mind. Even if all of the supplements they use turn out to be fine, he still might get in deep trouble from handing out prescriptions (if true this is really illegal) and trying to manipulate the TUE process.

rojo wrote:

Please tell me who has developed into a global force in recent years on the track? I can only think of MO and Galen in the long distances.

Rupp ran in the 1330s in 2004. He didn't break 13:30 until 2009. He ran 1258 in 2012.

See Farah in the 2007 and 2009 WC getting his doors blown off by Bekele and Lagat. In 2011, he looked like an entirely different runner than what he had before. At this same exact period, Rupp went from 27:37 to 26:48. He had done 27:33-27:37 the previous two years.

Oh look! It's trying to think! wrote:

It just amazes me how many people here cannot understand that even if nothing about EPO and testosterone ever comes to light, if the current accusations are shown to be accurate, they're grounds for drumming Al Sal out of the sport. He has the ethics of a sociopathic meth tweaker.

The current accusations include that Rupp took testosterone. So you just admitted that nothing may come of that accusation.

I assume you are referring to the allegations of manipulating the medical exemption process. That if Rupp manipulated the process, no matter if he was otherwise clean, that it is a serious violation. Fair enough, and I concur. Problem is, that allegation sounds a lot like a variation on Rupp's hypothyroidism that has been public for years. Its controversial to this day. The USADA heard all the compelling arguments that it was just some made up thing. The USADA allowed it.

So to sum up, testosteronem, use or any other use of a banned substance, may never come to light. The USADA has already struck down accusations of Rupp manipulating the medical exemption process.

The allegations are on very thin ice. Rohatinsky didn't add anything.

Kara was not a walk on at CU, highly recruited in HS. Should have won Boston in 2009, tactical error. But her wins and medals are always tactical wins. Her times pass the sniff test.

After reading through all this thread and reading the articles on LRC, I'm still wondering: Where is the proof? All I've seen so far are a bunch of people who hated Rupp since he was at Oregon now claiming he is doping. And of course they would say that, they hate him and salazar and NOP. But what's missing is the proof.

Someone offer some proof that they did anything. Any needles? any covered up failed doping tests (positive A samples but negative B sample)? Has a single person who used to run for him come out and say "when I was with salazar, he gave me EPO/testosterone"? (like tyler hamilton did to lance armstrong). Not one? that's what I thought.

basically there are people coming forward (goucher, rohatinsky) who are saying they aren't surprised that NOP/salazar would dope. Yet of course *they* were clean for the time period they ran with salazar. Or is this all one huge conspiracy where salazar has coached a dozen + pro runners, and the only one who he has ever given anythgin illegal to is Rupp, and he managed to hide it very well from everyone else? the level of delusion here is ridiculous. Someone earlier in this thread even tried to say that going from 3:57 mile to a 3:52 mile from 2009 to 2012 was "dropping 5 seconds in a year." I couldn't even believe that, presumably a grown adult, would attempt to say that 2009-2012 was one year just because they want to frame Rupp and Salazar as cheaters. delusional, delusional, delusional.

there is no proof whatsoever. only people who previously hated salazar who are accusing him of "cheating" but have no basis for it. this is jealousy and a witch hunt at its finest. please, *someone* come up with some proof of any kind, then I'll listen. Until then it's just a bunch of whiny anti-NOP crazies who will do anything to see NOP and the image of the sport go down.

MikeM wrote:

The thing that gets people to run as fast as Galen, Haile etc is extremely hardwork. Rojo, et al. maybe go back and read accounts of Haile G and his training on your own boards to see what kind of work these people put in. They weren't 'born' champions. Tons of people have good genetics. Very few have good genetics and also work hard.

That "hard work" crap is a red flag that the athlete who utters it may be dirty. Elites know that everyone at or even remotely near their level works as hard as their health will allow, being very careful to take enough rest and not overtrain. The limiting factor is how fast you can recover. If you are able to "work harder" than all the other elites, then you are recovering faster for some reason. If they're dishonest enough to claim to be harder-working, then I'm inclined to consider PED's as the reason they recover faster.

Great post, I'm sick of hearing 'he/she works harder than anybody else' the question we should be asking is how?

How to wrote:

Great post, I'm sick of hearing 'he/she works harder than anybody else' the question we should be asking is how?

hard work = BS

slow-steady progress = BS

TUEs = BS

gray zone = BS

altitude house-room = BS

micro-dosing = BS

DNS to avoid drug testing = BS

IVs = BS

coach having patient blood charts = BS

coach having a personal home pharmacy = BS

coach sending drugs illegally through the mail = BS

Dr, Coach, Pharmacist, Witch-doctor = Salazar

The solution to stop the illicit drug use is...

Salazar has to go

Rupp has to go

Farah has to go

____ has to go

Lifetime bans for each them

anapaix wrote:

After reading through all this thread and reading the articles on LRC, I'm still wondering: Where is the proof? All I've seen so far are a bunch of people who hated Rupp since he was at Oregon now claiming he is doping. And of course they would say that, they hate him and salazar and NOP. But what's missing is the proof.

The die-hard NOP fans like you are successfully turning more and more people against Rupp and Salazar. So, go tell you dad that sway opinion his way is a failure. And yes, we know that Salazar has his son read the forums, and make posts, on LRC to defend him. That is not a secret.

Son of Sal wrote:

anapaix wrote:

After reading through all this thread and reading the articles on LRC, I'm still wondering: Where is the proof? All I've seen so far are a bunch of people who hated Rupp since he was at Oregon now claiming he is doping. And of course they would say that, they hate him and salazar and NOP. But what's missing is the proof.

The die-hard NOP fans like you are successfully turning more and more people against Rupp and Salazar. So, go tell you dad that sway opinion his way is a failure. And yes, we know that Salazar has his son read the forums, and make posts, on LRC to defend him. That is not a secret.

I'm not salazar's son. I live in Kentucky. I've never even been to oregon. never even met salazar or rupp. i just hate unjust witch hunts, which is exactly what this is.

again: where is the proof? 121 responses now in this thread, and still no concrete proof besides people arguing about his 5k and mile progression (which are undoubtedly slow and steady).

proof. where is it? please, someone get it instead of actually having to resort to calling me "salazar's son"

I think there is also the facts that lots of NOP runners improved speed. It strikes me as odd that only Galen stands accused. People says stuff about Centro but mainly because they don't seem to like him. Cam Levins just ran a huge PR and seems to be at or above where Galen was in 2010.

I'd like to hear that someone saw something. To that end there is:

- the chart, which is a bit iffy,

- the androgel story that needs to be explained

- the urine to the Mayo story

- the book story

- the Alex Salazar story.

I doubt we will hear much about pain meds, cytomel. al sal can't admit it and all that will stop. Otherwise, he will say he gets TUEs and IVs as needed.

Yes in fact, someone has. The BBC documentary interviewed a former NOP runner under the pseudonym "Mike" who stated flat out that Alberto's doctors tried to give him testosterone microdosing.

Granted you'll probably just dismiss him as "anonymous" (even though two reputable journalistic sources - Epstein and the BBC - undoubtedly know who he is and can confirm he's a former NOPer), all the while ignoring that he's probably remaining anonymous because Alberto also has a *documented* history of threatening to ruin people's careers by blacklisting them from any of the Nike-sponsored universities (see his email making the same threat to Magness).

Again, you're ignoring the evidence. Rohatinsky & several others have documented that Salazar maintains a wall between Rupp - his golden boy - and the rest of the group, so it's quite conceivable that Rupp gets the dope that the others don't. But as "Mike" also testifies, he does in fact push dope on other athletes...my guess being those who make it into or close to the Rupp inner circle that Alberto seems to maintain.

They have. Many times over. And you aren't listening.