jjjjjj wrote:
on the contrary, Rohatinsky SAYS that he did not witness what went on behind the "wall of separation" dividing Rupp and the Wizard from the rest of the team.
Only Rupp --/ Farah-- and the Wizard could access the secret pharma-chamber.
jjjjjj wrote:
on the contrary, Rohatinsky SAYS that he did not witness what went on behind the "wall of separation" dividing Rupp and the Wizard from the rest of the team.
Only Rupp --/ Farah-- and the Wizard could access the secret pharma-chamber.
Skuj wrote:
The progress in 2006-2012 is NOT suspicious when you look at the numbers right across the board. NEWSFLASH: 2012 was a 5 years after Rohatinsky departed.
What you think is, and is not, suspicious does not make it a fact. Yet, you write that you you chose to believe is the 'True Story.'
Skuj wrote:
Sudden Impact wrote:Rupp didn't improve 2s per year, he improved 5s in ONE year.
NO!!!
He improved 5sec over 3 years.
Are we really having this conversation?
What we're his PRS in 2011?
What were they in 2012?
Give up yet?
Skuj wrote:
Sudden Impact wrote:Rupp didn't improve 2s per year, he improved 5s in ONE year.
NO!!!
He improved 5sec over 3 years.
Are we really having this conversation?
What we're his PRS in 2011?
What were they in 2012?
Give up yet?
Beating the Bekeke brothers in 2012 is not unbelievable. That's poor context of the world record holder who was nowhere near that kind of shape.
Also Rupps progression was never as steep as it seemed. People talked about his pathetic 13:30 5k or for years, but he had run a 10k closing in 13:37 after going out in 13:56 while holding a 13:30 pr. His actual shape was way ahead of his prs for years and the pr curve you see is not reflective of his improvement curve. You have to blind to not see that.
Fanboy? wrote:
What you think is, and is not, suspicious does not make it a fact. Yet, you write that you you chose to believe is the 'True Story.'
This is ABSOLUTELY TRUE regarding Rohatinsky's "thoughts" also. There is not one shred of evidence in his writing which points to any wrongdoing. (Same with Gouchers et al.)
Now, shall we look at Rupp progression together?
My PR for 3000m when I was 18 was 9:16.I spent several years after that focussing on 800m/1500m racing.At 24 I ran 8:41. HOLY SHITBALLS I DROPPED 35 SECONDS IN ONE YEAR!!!
Sudden Impact wrote:
Skuj wrote:NO!!!
He improved 5sec over 3 years.
Are we really having this conversation?
What we're his PRS in 2011?
What were they in 2012?
Give up yet?
Montesquieu wrote:
Here's a summary of JR's comments:
1. He was never asked to take anything illegal.
2. He sensed a wall between AS and GR in relation to everyone else in the group (of course, we should keep in mind that AS has always treated GR like a son).
3. He never saw anything illegal going on.
4. He is suspicious of GR's progress, apparently because he trained with him and was able to beat him when younger (he is almost four years older than Rupp).
Very well done. Here's an equally objective summary of Ted Bundy's life:
1. He had a lot of charisma and charm.
2. Women reportedly loved him endlessly.
3. He smiled a lot.
4. He's dead, and therefore incapable of harm.
So what's all the fuss about him? Until I see some real evidence that he was some sort of cad, color me unconvinced.
Oy vey!
Montesquieu wrote:
Here's a summary of JR's comments:
1. He was never asked to take anything illegal.
2. He sensed a wall between AS and GR in relation to everyone else in the group (of course, we should keep in mind that AS has always treated GR like a son).
3. He never saw anything illegal going on.
4. He is suspicious of GR's progress, apparently because he trained with him and was able to beat him when younger (he is almost four years older than Rupp).
Very well done. Here's an equally objective summary of Ted Bundy's life:
1. He had a lot of charisma and charm.
2. Women reportedly loved him endlessly.
3. He smiled a lot.
4. He's dead, and therefore incapable of harm.
So what's all the fuss about him? Until I see some real evidence that he was some sort of cad, color me unconvinced.
Oy vey!
But we have actual evidence against Bundy. Nice try though.
Munt is Skewed wrote:
Montesquieu wrote:Here's a summary of JR's comments:
1. He was never asked to take anything illegal.
2. He sensed a wall between AS and GR in relation to everyone else in the group (of course, we should keep in mind that AS has always treated GR like a son).
3. He never saw anything illegal going on.
4. He is suspicious of GR's progress, apparently because he trained with him and was able to beat him when younger (he is almost four years older than Rupp).
Very well done. Here's an equally objective summary of Ted Bundy's life:
1. He had a lot of charisma and charm.
2. Women reportedly loved him endlessly.
3. He smiled a lot.
4. He's dead, and therefore incapable of harm.
So what's all the fuss about him? Until I see some real evidence that he was some sort of cad, color me unconvinced.
Oy vey!
Ge was a lot closer to "there" than you were. And if Rupp started taking stuff in high school his progression could very well look "normal."
Logically wrote:
Ge was a lot closer to "there" than you were. And if Rupp started taking stuff in high school his progression could very well look "normal."
Slow-steady progress has been a chant Pharmacist Alberto's for years. "Normal" progressions are part of his Master Plan, and always have been.
Skuj wrote:
But we have actual evidence against Bundy. Nice try though.
You're missing the point, which isn't surprising because 1) you want to miss it, and 2) you, like Montesquieu, don't strike me as the sort of person who easily "gets" things. You can flat-out ignore numbers and other things thrown right in front of your eyes in order to protect your bizarre thesis that Salazar hasn't broken any meaningful rules.
My only question about dupes like you: How will you respond once the whole story does have time to emerge? Will you still maintain that Salazar did nothing really bad, even if he turns out to have been an EPO provider (not that this is necessary to "convict" him)? Or will you just shrug and pretend that all along, you were operating with complete clarity on available evidence, and that everyone else's jumping the gun was never justified even if they turned out to be right?
Also, does it occur to you whimsical dipshits who somehow think that Josh Rohatinsky is really in no better position than you are to assess Alberto's culpability and tendencies here that not everyone who has come forward in some way has shared absolutely everything publicly yet? Doubt it.
You're all really something else. I could write my grad school masters psychology thesis on denialism and modern culture using input from just this website alone.
I am by no means a supporter of any of the nike groups(including Schumacher) after all his boy ran sub 27 to beat Galen, and his other guy broke the steeple AR. Kara was a walk on at CU then went on to a 3rd place finish at Boston, right? So if you are going to throw people under the bus you can add a few more.
As for progression of improvement. I came out of HS with the only offer being a PARTIAL scholarship at a junior college. Barely broke 15 minutes for the 5k my freshman year. By the time I was done I ran 14:01. That is a 50 second improvement in the 5k in about 3 years. Not only was I not taking PED's, I was skipping breakfast everyday, and having a mountain dew and a cookie for lunch. Maybe Galen and crew are dirty(and if they are EVERYONE is dirty) and maybe they are just runners who put in more than you.
I would call a wall of separation between Alberto/Galen and the rest of the group
what about Mo? Strange that Mo beat Rupp if Rupp got special treatment?
PS we all hated running against Weber State, Ricks College, BYU because everyone on their teams had 2 extra years on us. Kinda felt like it was an unfair advantage... a gray area in the NCAA laws.
Well, that's all very lovely and all but....SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE.(There is none as of today.)
Skuj wrote:
This is ABSOLUTELY TRUE regarding Rohatinsky's "thoughts" also. There is not one shred of evidence in his writing which points to any wrongdoing. (Same with Gouchers et al.)
Do you really think Rohat's post is to provide proof? The value in his story is that he believes others' accounts of wrongdoing. He knew Stiner and trusts him. If you recall, Stiner was the fellow who went back for "Alberto's" Androgel.
If you also recall, the mere possession of Androgel is a violation of WADA's rules.
Sure it doesn't prove Galen was on anything, but it's a little suspicious, don't you think?
For the record, I've rooted for Rupp from the beginning, and still hold out hope that he's clean, but it's a fool's hope.
There are a couple glaring problems Rohatinskys response -
1. For a number of years Rupp was ridiculed on this board for UNDERachieving. Rupp haters can't have it both ways. He didn't win an NCAA title until his senior year at Oregon. Rupp set a PR in the 10000M in 2007, but didn't break that PR for 3 full years. Then when he did break that PR he got embarrassed by Solinsky and only finished 4th. In the 5000M he has yet to run faster than four other white American distance runners. If you want to talk about wild sudden upturns in progression under Salazar, Ritz and Farah look more sketchy than Rupp. Also, in the Olympic 10K we know K Bekele was a shadow of his former self. The top Kenyan Kiprop dropped out midway through the race. Rohatinsky is just cherry picking facts about Rupp's progression.
2. Of course Rupp took drugs that enhanced his performance. Rupp started taking thyroid treatment in 05 or 06''. That in fact corresponds to the one sudden upturn in his progression when had that breakout year in 2007 making it to the WCs. But we know about the thyroid treatment, the supplements and PMs. We know if from Salazar. WADA and the USADA knows about it too. That's not the issue. The issue is illegal doping. Where is it? Rohatinsky is not telling us.
The allegations of manipulating the medical exemption process is serious. It should be investigated. But the doping allegation relies on almost hail mary connection of the dots. A. The Saline IV that could possibly be used for masking an illegal drug. B. Salazar is known to possess Androgel C. People taking on themselves of what Rupp's natural ability is, and alleging that his achievements are too good to be legal.
elephant in the room wrote:
I would call a wall of separation between Alberto/Galen and the rest of the group
what about Mo? Strange that Mo beat Rupp if Rupp got special treatment?
Pharmacist Al did not account for African genetics when he brought Farah in to be Rupp's lapdog. Farah proved to be a pliable type and he got some special brew. Farah now travels away from Al's watchful stare, so Farah can adjust the brew and break Al's slow progress rule. The result was, Mo' gold metals, and an 'oops' 3:28 1500m.