Epstein: More athletes come forward about Salazar

it affects us newbies wrote:

Scandals that reveal major headlining players are cheating is definitely a blow against the sport. Good for you for being old.

Well little boy, good for you for being so young as to have no real track experiences.

jewbacca wrote:

Jeff Chalkers wrote:

NOPe is going down, and the sport we all love is better for it.

No, the sport isn't better for it. Salazar is a hell of coach, and if he has crossed too far through the grey zone then we are losing a great coach and a successful program. And some of the best American athletes will go down with him.

The sport loses.

Hey you're right, but heck I don't know anything about Salazar, but here's a chance to clean up with a lot more publicity for my website and more money too woohoo!!!!! What do you want me to say about him huh????? P.S. Paula Radcliffe is our friend.

/this ends the synopsis of what's happening.

Er... wrote:

No, we're not close. We're a long, long way away. If there's no more compelling evidence then AlSal was pushing the envelope of what's legal and engaging in really dodgy, unethical and likely illegal practices. But there's no EPO, there's no testosterone, there are no injection daisy chains like the cyclists had. This is a far cry from Lance's house of cards. It could still get to that level, but it needs a lot more evidence.

House of cards wrote:

There was a definite moment in the Lance Armstrong saga when his house of cards crumbled. We aren't quite there with NOP yet, but we are getting very close.

This whole thing is like Saturday Night Live show, comical at best.

Lastest breaking drug, Celebrex being passed out! My god an nonsteroidal anti inflammatory! Next will be a bottle of aspirin was seen in Rupp's locker.

Any and all of what is being mentioned so are common place in any college athletic training room. Visit a pro team training room the number of pushing the envelope modalities would make this look like a candy store.

Sorry, but anonymous sources are not going to cut it. Too many journalists make up content knowing it cant be disproved under the anonymous tag. The excuse of fear is not legitimate. This whole thing is getting little notice in the us sporting world (outside track) because there really is so little evidence so far. None that would end a career.....

Anonymous?

Fanboys can't see the sun for the sunshine in their eyes.

Er... wrote:

You know, it IS actually possible to believe Salazar and some or all of NOP have crossed the line AND criticize the information that's coming out.

[/quote]

Thank you. U.S. culture is awash in false dichotomies no matter where you turn, and seems determined to stay that way. The way our political system is set up probably explains a great deal of the tendency to ignore nuance in controversial topics.

It's also possible to display a quixotic level of skepticism that the NOP has committed some serious infractions without being a "Nike shill" -- some people just don't like to accept what they see as negative information no matter how powerful the evidence supporting it seems to other people.

gwalkerruns wrote:

Sorry, but anonymous sources are not going to cut it. Too many journalists make up content knowing it cant be disproved under the anonymous tag. The excuse of fear is not legitimate. This whole thing is getting little notice in the us sporting world (outside track) because there really is so little evidence so far. None that would end a career.....

NOP Online Community Coordinator works Friday night??

I agree with you. No one is getting a sanction because Nike's money is THE BEST.

jewbacca wrote:

Jeff Chalkers wrote:

NOPe is going down, and the sport we all love is better for it.

No, the sport isn't better for it. Salazar is a hell of coach, and if he has crossed too far through the grey zone then we are losing a great coach and a successful program. And some of the best American athletes will go down with him.

The sport loses.

Tend to agree. This is a huge blow to American T&F. We are going to implode however justly over cytomel and celebrex while the rest of the world is eating our lunch while on EPO, CERA, and God knows what else. I haven't been able to get excited about professional running for a few years now, because I just don't buy that anyone is clean. I still can barely bring myself to believe that Decker-Slaney was dirty. It's sad. I remember screaming at my TV in 1984 for her to get back up and run. This is just bad all around.

gwalkerruns wrote:

Sorry, but anonymous sources are not going to cut it.

Do you expect them to remain anonymous for long? Don't you think that it will soon reach a point at which there exists a "critical mass" of anonymous sources that have stepped forward, these sources' fears of blowing in the breeze as a result of talking begin to fade as a result, and more and more of them become willing to attach their own names to their claims? This is virtually always how these types of stories develop, whether they center on church sex scandals, doping in professional sports, or some other mess where guilt and shame are at issue.

Goucher was with the NOP for some time do you think she wasn't cheating ? Maybe she's repented but she's in it like the rest of them. I find it rather irritating that she's being billed as a hero, fraud is closer the mark I think.

Truth be told, IVs are used by all of the Africans and North Africans after every round of heats. This has been known for quite a while, and lots of other athletes do this as well. But it seems to be overlooked when the athletes are aren't white or Asian. Why is that?

Is there a list of these 17 athletes published anywhere?

Does USADA have a position paper on these allegations.

Mr. Stewart has a position does Mrs. Stewart have one?

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Where is Tygart hiding?

please let me see the list wrote:

Is there a list of these 17 athletes published anywhere?

That's exactly what I'm wondering. Where is the list of these supposedly 17 people who have come forward. Without names it does't mean a lot really. I can publish a report saying 18 anonymous athletes have come forward in support of the NOP.

Pittsburgh Joe wrote:

This is a huge blow to American T&F. We are going to implode however justly over cytomel and celebrex while the rest of the world is eating our lunch while on EPO, CERA, and God knows what else. I haven't been able to get excited about professional running for a few years now, because I just don't buy that anyone is clean.

I think Salazar deserves a lifetime ban, but I still recognize the irony. NOP almost certainly isn't doing anything (and probably far less) than the guys over in Kenya who aren't tested out of competition are doing.

Salazar needs to just bust out the Jack Nicolson, A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth! You need me on that wall!". Grey area abusing TUEs is the only chance we have of beating Africans who are doped up on EPO and steroids.

I may be cynical, but the only way I can enjoy professional T&F is telling myself that while drug testing isn't good enough to catch dopers, hopefully it's sufficient enough that nobody can dope much more than anyone else (though that appears to not be the case in cycling, where everyone in the peloton was doping but Armstrong and USPS was more sophisticated and systematic and the ICU more likely to overlook a positive test).

Too bad we just can't go back to the era of amateurism. Maybe there'd be less incentive to cheat without the money, but pride can be just as strong a motivation.

They really seem to be trying to push the cytomel angle, which I find kind of strange. 10 or 15 years ago the bodybuilding community got wind of it and it was almost impossible to find. It's not a wonder drug, its simply the active form of thyroid hormone.

Most folks are usually prescribed the inactive form, which their body then has to convert to the active form. If Goucher for example was already on thyroid meds and her body was having difficulty converting those meds, then it actually would have been appropriate for her to take cytomel. Some Docs know to look at the conversion and some don't. (Not saying that Salazar should be giving it to her, just that for someone like Goucher, that have thyroid disease, it can be appropriate.)

I have thyroid disease and personally don't do well on the typical meds prescribed but have done well on cytomel for close to 25 years. Meds affect everyone differently (and they don't say how much they're taking) but I've never felt "revved up" after talking it. ((Unless you count the occasional hot flash.) The stuff has a short halflife and burns through your system pretty quickly (hours). (That said, I need the stuff. A person with normal function might feel like they've taken a pre-workout sup, don't know.)

Anyway, just thought I'd put this out there. It almost seems like they're trying to equate cytomel with other PEDs and its not even close. It might help folks with normal thyroid function lose weight (its never helped me do that and has actually shut down my thyroid on too high a dose) but frankly you'd cut weight faster on a week long backpacking trip......

J Lowe wrote:

If Goucher for example was already on thyroid meds and her body was having difficulty converting those meds, then it actually would have been appropriate for her to take cytomel. Some Docs know to look at the conversion and some don't. (Not saying that Salazar should be giving it to her, just that for someone like Goucher, that have thyroid disease, it can be appropriate.)

Appropriate doesn't save Dr Salazar. Nothing will save him from pretending to be an MD who happens to have his own in-home pharmacy.

J Lowe wrote:

It almost seems like they're trying to equate cytomel with other PEDs and its not even close.

Meant to say "they're trying to equate cytomel with PEDS" not "other" PEDs. It's not a PED.