Since the investigation was published, three more former members of the Oregon Project have contacted ProPublica, bringing to 17 the number of athletes and Oregon Project staffers who have described to ProPublica and the BBC what they feel was inappropriate prescription drug use orchestrated by Salazar.
http://www.propublica.org/article/more-athletes-say-track-coach-alberto-salazar-broke-drug-rules
Epstein: More athletes come forward about Salazar
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This needs a better headline because these little articles are starting to put the nail in the coffin for NOP. Very bad for the Salazar camp as they are getting people to admit to cheating the system to obtain TUE's and admitting the benefits that came with them.
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So Salazar is ultimately going down for passing out a prescription strength anti-inflammatory and having his athletes exercise before an exercise induced asthma test? Jeez, their are probably a ton of coaches right now just realizing they may have crossed into the "gray" zone.
Somehow this doesn't feel very US Postal to me. -
LOL.
A whopping 17 former NOPe members have come out against Alberto's myriad drug violations, and the fanboys still want to cry conspiracy. Do you think Steve Magness, the Gouchers, Vern Gambetta, John Cook, et al. just randomly decided to fabricate accusations against Alberto and Rupp?
Do you think it's a coincidence that Mary Cain's parents -- both medical doctors -- pulled her back to NY once they learned the full extent of Salazar's flouting of drug rules?
Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's a TON of smoke here.
Plenty of athletes/assistants leave other coaches. That doesn't mean they have an axe to grind against their former coach. It should raise eyebrows that so many people who used to work alongside Salazar have things like this to say about him. Do we ever hear this stuff about Schumacher? Vigil? Gags? The list goes on.
NOPe is going down, and the sport we all love is better for it. -
Snap, crackle.... Rupp!
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Jeff Chalkers wrote:
A whopping 17 former NOPe members have come out against Alberto's myriad drug violations, and the fanboys still want to cry conspiracy. Do you think Steve Magness, the Gouchers, Vern Gambetta, John Cook, et al. just randomly decided to fabricate accusations against Alberto and Rupp?
Do you think it's a coincidence that Mary Cain's parents -- both medical doctors -- pulled her back to NY once they learned the full extent of Salazar's flouting of drug rules?
Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's a TON of smoke here.
I guess, but apart from the Magness photo, it's the same old smoke we've been hearing about for years [and that Cain's parents should have known about when they agreed to have her work with Alberto.]
I know Epstein is trying, but this latest article didn't add much [beyond the ugliness of Salazar's threat to Magness stemming for the dispute over "altitude training"].
More documentary evidence along the lines of the Magness photo that suggests full-on doping could move the ball forward, but I don't think more people saying that Salazar pushed the envelope with thyroid meds and asthma meds and saline IVs is going to force Nike to make changes.
Maybe Salazar having apparently lied to Mo about whether he was coaching Mary Slaney when she was busted will lead to enough pressure on Mo and UK Athletics that they sever ties with Salazar, at which point the story could start to get legs in the US. -
Jeff Chalkers wrote:
LOL.
A whopping 17 former NOPe members have come out against Alberto's myriad drug violations, and the fanboys still want to cry conspiracy. Do you think Steve Magness, the Gouchers, Vern Gambetta, John Cook, et al. just randomly decided to fabricate accusations against Alberto and Rupp?
Do you think it's a coincidence that Mary Cain's parents -- both medical doctors -- pulled her back to NY once they learned the full extent of Salazar's flouting of drug rules?
Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's a TON of smoke here.
Plenty of athletes/assistants leave other coaches. That doesn't mean they have an axe to grind against their former coach. It should raise eyebrows that so many people who used to work alongside Salazar have things like this to say about him. Do we ever hear this stuff about Schumacher? Vigil? Gags? The list goes on.
NOPe is going down, and the sport we all love is better for it.
POST OF THE DAY!!!!! -
I have been skeptical but it looks like he will have a hard time denying pushing people to get TUEs etc. IT sounds like painkillers, thyroid, exercise induced asthma.
I remain curious about any testosterone or EPO.. -
"Cook later clarified that he has no knowledge of testosterone use at the Oregon Project."
Conveniently buried in the story after the fact.... I find that a remarkable revelation.
Did Epstein ask a physician if exercising is important before an exercise asthma test? Cuz I did that.
The Celebrex stuff is laughable. I would say half of America shares their funny meds with one another.
So no systematic blood doping uncovered. No credible, systematic steroid use uncovered, but for one photo document that alleged potential use.
You telling me the NOP has been kicking my ass because they were on some anti amflamatories and inhalers. Damn. I'm on that stuff!!! -
Yellow hat guy wrote:
So Salazar is ultimately going down for passing out a prescription strength anti-inflammatory and having his athletes exercise before an exercise induced asthma test? Jeez, their are probably a ton of coaches right now just realizing they may have crossed into the "gray" zone.
Somehow this doesn't feel very US Postal to me.
Perhaps you are forgetting:
the pills hidden in a book shipped to Germany;
the prednisone/testosterone lab results;
the Alex Salazar lab test with the testosterone gel rubbed on his body;
the urine sample taken by Magness to the Mayo Clinic;
the IVs and the coaching for getting it from the doctors;
the Androgel supposedly own by Salazar (yeah, with his heart condition);
the anonymus athltete who was said to take testosterone because "this is what Alberto does";
the Cytomel bottle given to Kara Goucher with no presciption. -
Well, now what?!! wrote:
"Cook later clarified that he has no knowledge of testosterone use at the Oregon Project."
Conveniently buried in the story after the fact.... I find that a remarkable revelation.
Did Epstein ask a physician if exercising is important before an exercise asthma test? Cuz I did that.
The Celebrex stuff is laughable. I would say half of America shares their funny meds with one another.
So no systematic blood doping uncovered. No credible, systematic steroid use uncovered, but for one photo document that alleged potential use.
You telling me the NOP has been kicking my ass because they were on some anti amflamatories and inhalers. Damn. I'm on that stuff!!!
You are apologizing for them wiping their @ss with the spirit of the sport, without knowing the capabilities of prescription drugs. This is sad. -
dkny64 wrote:
I know Epstein is trying, but this latest article didn't add much ... I don't think more people saying that Salazar pushed the envelope with thyroid meds and asthma meds and saline IVs is going to force Nike to make changes.
I don't think you understand.
The fact that prescription thyroid hormones and inhalers -- both beta-agonists and corticosteroids -- aren't categorically illegal a la EPO doesn't mean that a coach who isn't even a medical doctor can just hand these out indiscriminately and not run afoul of the USADA and WADA.
Telling an athlete "Here, I can smell your thyroid and I think it's fried, load up on this here Cytomel" does not constitute a TUE. Advising people to secure an asthma diagnosis by frivolous means and share inhalers isn't something enforcing bodies are apt to overlook.
Finally, I don't quite get why you think it is Nike itself that is ultimately going to get to decide whether to sanction Salazar or the NOP. If that's how things worked, do you think Lance Armstrong would ever have found himself in a world of trouble? -
Well, now what?!! wrote:
"Cook later clarified that he has no knowledge of testosterone use at the Oregon Project."
Conveniently buried in the story after the fact.... I find that a remarkable revelation.
Did Epstein ask a physician if exercising is important before an exercise asthma test? Cuz I did that.
The Celebrex stuff is laughable. I would say half of America shares their funny meds with one another.
So no systematic blood doping uncovered. No credible, systematic steroid use uncovered, but for one photo document that alleged potential use.
You telling me the NOP has been kicking my ass because they were on some anti amflamatories and inhalers. Damn. I'm on that stuff!!!
Are you illiterate? The sentence before that says testosterone AND prednisone. JC said he had no knowledge of testosterone. HINT HINT HINT...
By the way how do you NIKE SHILLS even sleep at night? Sheesh. I hope you get paid overtime for this. -
Jeff Chalkers wrote:
NOPe is going down, and the sport we all love is better for it.
No, the sport isn't better for it. Salazar is a hell of coach, and if he has crossed too far through the grey zone then we are losing a great coach and a successful program. And some of the best American athletes will go down with him.
The sport loses. -
You know, it IS actually possible to believe Salazar and some or all of NOP have crossed the line AND criticize the information that's coming out. I'm not a Nike shill. Don't even buy any of their shoes or gear anymore (I used to). I think the deal USATF signed is a travesty.
But it's a little disheartening to read the stories that some people are heralding as the beginning of the big take down and find lines like, "I consider what I was doing a kind of doping.”
As for the suggestion that not being willing to talk about testosterone implies that there was testosterone ... can we get some EVIDENCE please?!
fdasfasdfsdf wrote:
By the way how do you NIKE SHILLS even sleep at night? Sheesh. I hope you get paid overtime for this. -
jewbacca wrote:
Jeff Chalkers wrote:
NOPe is going down, and the sport we all love is better for it.
No, the sport isn't better for it. Salazar is a hell of coach, and if he has crossed too far through the grey zone then we are losing a great coach and a successful program. And some of the best American athletes will go down with him.
The sport loses.
It depends how you define the health of the sport. I seem to think ridding the sport of scumbags is a good thing regardless of the success they have had. You would disagree.
I don't want someone that is a terrible person to be the face of a sport I'm a part of, and I will be glad when he is gone. -
jewbacca wrote:
The sport loses.
I have been a fan of T&F before there was Alberto anyone, and long before their was a NOP. If you entire reason for being a fan revolves around a single entity like NOP then you are not a true fan of T&F. -
There was a definite moment in the Lance Armstrong saga when his house of cards crumbled. We aren't quite there with NOP yet, but we are getting very close.
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No it doesn't wrote:
jewbacca wrote:
The sport loses.
I have been a fan of T&F before there was Alberto anyone, and long before their was a NOP. If you entire reason for being a fan revolves around a single entity like NOP then you are not a true fan of T&F.
I have only really been paying attention to elite T&F for a few years. And to be honest I've been holding out as a closeted NOP supporter. I didn't think that the TUE misuse "gray area" was serious enough to gain traction or seriously discredit AlSal or the Rupper. But, against my will, I can't defend them in my brain any longer...
I was so pumped watching that 2012 10,000m olympic race...
I feel like this is ripping a good memory out of my soul, covering it with black tar, but still putting it back so that I can't just forget it.
Scandals that reveal major headlining players are cheating is definitely a blow against the sport. Good for you for being old. -
As I try to look at this objectively, I am very disturbed that prescription drugs may have been casually distributed by Salazar. But I wonder at what would be considered illegal by WADA. It's my understanding that Cytomel and Celebrex are not on the WADA prohibited list at all. While Albuterol only is if more than a maximum quantity is exceeded.
Those activities might be legally pursued as a crime, but only if any of the runners providing that information were provided the prescription drugs (without their own prescriptions) in the last few years. Otherwise a statute of limitations might apply.
I would think that the use of prednisone by Rupp, if TUEs were obtained when taken near competitions, might not be very suspect as he does have serious allergies and asthma, documented since he was a child. But if distributed to other athletes it would be a big concern. The urine test before the race in Europe would actually have been very reasonable, as prednisone only requires a TUE if still in an athlete's system during a competition. The pills in the book thing is of course a different matter, but I can't see where Salazar would even need to respond to that.
The high school mention of testosterone is obviously well outside the period that can be used for any suspensions, even if that medical chart was correct.
And we'll see if Salazar can produce a personal prescription for Androgel.
So as someone else mentioned in a different post, the biggest concern to Salazar (and Rupp) will be the intravenous fluids at Worlds. I wonder if the USADA will need and be able to get substantiating testimony from the officials or doctors involved.
So one possible outcome of all this is for there to be considerable outcry over what has occurred with NOP but not enough for suspensions to be handed out. The IVs may be enough and then if any testosterone use (in recent years) is proven that would be another significant issue.
