How come ther's never been a cloud of suspicion hanging over Schumachers Group?

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

Brilliant.

They probably aren't clean. You're kidding yourself if you think they are. Just because you like them doesn't mean they're any different than the rest.

The answer to this question is rather simple. People who have worked with or for Alberto Salazar saw things that made them uncomfortable and have been willing to go on the record. Nobody who has worked with or for Schumacher has ever had any qualms--certainly not publicly. Sure, people will speculate about all sorts of things. But when several former associates are willing to stick their necks out and issue such allegations, things change. Additionally, Alberto Salazar has a particular history with regard to PED that Jerry Schumacher does not. Salazar's '99 speech, the legacy of the 1980s and Athletics West, etc. So, in my view there is a very good reason why Salazar is in the frying pan, and no credible reason why Schumacher should be.

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

LOL!

They use the same lab as NOP.

Dirty vs Clean wrote:

Here's a comparison from before Mo went to the NOP in 2011.

TEG - born Jan '82

PR's

1500 Metres 3:34.25 Athína (Olympic Stadium) 02 JUL 2007

3000 Metres 7:34.98 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 20 AUG 2006

5000 Metres 12:58.56 Bruxelles (Boudewijnstadion) 04 SEP 2009

Finished fourth and eighth at the 07 and 09 WC's and thirteenth at the 08 Olympics (all in the 5k).

MO - born March '83

PR's

1500 Metres 3:33.98 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 28 JUL 2009

3000 Metres 7:38.15 Zagreb 31 AUG 2006

5000 Metres 12:57.94 Zurich 19 AUG 2010

10000 Metres 27:28.86 Marseille 05 JUN 2010

Finished sixth and seventh at the 07 and 09 WC's and did not make it out of the heats at the 08 Olympics (all in the 5k).

One thing your Teg vs Mo comparison doesn't account for is their MORPHOLOGY.

It's all about POWER to WEIGHT RATIO. Mo is built like a world beater. Leaner, lighter, shorter, stick figure.

Teg 6'2, 150 lbs

Mo 5'5, 128 lbs

Of course Mo should be faster than Teg. We also know Teg was training pretty hard in high school and college. How serious was Mo during that time? Didn't Mo start as an 800m runner?

Schumacher has a multi-year HISTORY at the college level, where his athletes were successful but not drastically more successful than you'd expect for high school recruits of that caliber. There might have been some rogue athletes on his teams who doped, but that could be said of any team, and there's no reason to suspect him of operating a "drug program." I've suspected two of the guys in his pro stable of doping for a short time, but I don't think he would condone that sort of thing if he knew about it, let alone promote it. You'd need to look to some vermin elsewhere in the Nike racket to find a better candidate for providing drugs to anyone in Schumacher's group - if that was going on at all.

Sleazy Sal, OTOH, has NO such history, his main association in a coach/athlete capacity (prior to the APPARENT success of Rupp and NOP) being Mary Slaney.

Uh-Ohhh, Spaghetti-Ohhhs.

He also advised (or at least was buddy-buddy with) Lance Armstrong during marathon prep. Of course Pharmstrong had been oozing PEDs for some time, but still ... this isn't the sort of association you'd want to have on your resume if you wanted to proclaim, "Hey! Looked who I 'coached'!" And you wonder where the "sleazy" tag comes from?

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

another vote for post of the week

A serious answer? Because there is no circumstantial evidence linking Schumacher's group to anything shady. Schumacher didn't coach a testosterone doper a few decades ago, Schumacher wasn't affiliated with an athletics club that was notorious for steroid use, nobody in that group gets flow - publicly at least - to far-off doctors to get prescribed medications for oddball diagnoses, and there is no testimony or physical evidence linking Schumacher's group to anything shady. None of that can be said about Salazar.

FWIW, Schumacher is much more secretive and reclusive with his runners, so I suppose they might just be doing the same thing but out of the view of the public because they are not as popular and well-followed.

Max Mercy wrote:

This board is a sloppy mess of people who have zero idea what the elite world of track and field is made up of. Blind accusations of something you know nothing of is pretty ridiculous. Your knowledge consists only of the drivel spouted on this board and what you've read on the Internet. I don't know what makes you think that you're experts, but I suppose this analogously occurs amongst the fat guys at home on Sunday's second guessing NFL coaches because they played high school ball their junior year. Get a life!

A burst of truth amongst the madness of LR.

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

Best. Post. Ever.

Coach Cookie wrote:

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

Best. Post. Ever.

That was a great post.

Schumacher's group does the right thing. They are the good guys in this scenario.

Yes to Schumachers clean past, but also because no one in that group is good enough to merit the suspicion. Who is actually competitive internationally?

Shalane? Sort of but she is still getting smoked by minutes with an elite field. (but the likes of Jeptoo make it hard to infer). She also doesn't race enough internationally.

Jagar? Definitely, but the steeple is almost like the event for those who weren't competitive enough to run the 3K/5K.

Derrick? XC maybe... but nothing saying he's top in the field internationally on the track.

All others are not currently competitive, or haven't raced this year showing otherwise.

Alberto has a shady past, but Galen, Mo, Centro, and Rowbury have all held their own internationally. Along with world and Olympic medals to go with it.

I was going to post along the lines of most of Schumacher's runners not being near the "Top 5" in the world.

Attrition wrote:

Yes to Schumachers clean past, but also because no one in that group is good enough to merit the suspicion. Who is actually competitive internationally?

Shalane? Sort of but she is still getting smoked by minutes with an elite field. (but the likes of Jeptoo make it hard to infer). She also doesn't race enough internationally.

Jagar? Definitely, but the steeple is almost like the event for those who weren't competitive enough to run the 3K/5K.

Derrick? XC maybe... but nothing saying he's top in the field internationally on the track.

All others are not currently competitive, or haven't raced this year showing otherwise.

Alberto has a shady past, but Galen, Mo, Centro, and Rowbury have all held their own internationally. Along with world and Olympic medals to go with it.

Exactly. Schumacher group not under suspicion because they win very little on the international stage against event leaders.

MORPHOLO GEE wrote:

One thing your Teg vs Mo comparison doesn't account for is their MORPHOLOGY.

It's all about POWER to WEIGHT RATIO. Mo is built like a world beater. Leaner, lighter, shorter, stick figure.

Teg 6'2, 150 lbs

Mo 5'5, 128 lbs

Of course Mo should be faster than Teg. We also know Teg was training pretty hard in high school and college. How serious was Mo during that time? Didn't Mo start as an 800m runner?

Using your figures, Teg's BMI is 19.3 vs. Mo's 21.3. Is a higher body mass index now supposed to help your running?

Best post --- I spit out my drink in laughter. Well done, well done

Interesting. Who have you suspected and why?

As if being an NCAA coach means he's got a conscious not to have athletes coach. His group obviously is on everything NOP takes. No way Solinsky that big ofe can run sub 27 at 165 lbs and Bairo breaks Jeff "God" Sheibler's Canadian 10,000m record. Cannot wait for the day these cheaters get busted and Sheib gets his record back.