How come ther's never been a cloud of suspicion hanging over Schumachers Group?

Go hang out with them. You'll know why that question has never come up. #cleansport

Only AlSal has full access to the special NOP lab. This helps Salazar keep #1 coach status.

Jerry runs the Control Group.

Clean vs Dirty wrote:

No one. No one ever associated with Schumacher has done anything to feel suspicious about. How come?

"Because they're pure as the driven snow" seems to be the answer you want to hear. Doesn't happen to be my opinion, but whatever.

dope doesn't work in the steeplechase, it's all about technique

If you're not suspicious, you're not paying attention. I'm a huge fan, and skeptical at the same time.

I was also a HUGE fan and HUGE skeptic of Daniel Komen.

classic

Clean vs Dirty wrote:

No one. No one ever associated with Schumacher has done anything to feel suspicious about. How come?

People from the Midwest never cheat. They work hard and eat meat and potatoes and bread and butter.

Sure they cheat in school cheat on their spouses and significant others, and are butt kissers amassing phony accolades

But... That's not really done in the spirit of cheating but sacrifices made in the blue collar spirit of meat and potatoes macho work hard play hard. Gotta work smart... Whether supplements for the body or for academics. Gotta let loose.

Bad Wigins wrote:

dope doesn't work in the steeplechase, it's all about technique

Excellent point. Doubly true among female steeplers as the top competitors' flawless hurdling technique has demonstrated.

This board is a sloppy mess of people who have zero idea what the elite world of track and field is made up of. Blind accusations of something you know nothing of is pretty ridiculous. Your knowledge consists only of the drivel spouted on this board and what you've read on the Internet. I don't know what makes you think that you're experts, but I suppose this analogously occurs amongst the fat guys at home on Sunday's second guessing NFL coaches because they played high school ball their junior year. Get a life!

Max Mercy wrote:

This board is a sloppy mess of people who have zero idea what the elite world of track and field is made up of. Blind accusations of something you know nothing of is pretty ridiculous. Your knowledge consists only of the drivel spouted on this board and what you've read on the Internet. I don't know what makes you think that you're experts, but I suppose this analogously occurs amongst the fat guys at home on Sunday's second guessing NFL coaches because they played high school ball their junior year. Get a life!

PEDs are easily accessible for nearly everyone in the world and have been for 60+ years. Regular joes and janes take them just to feel good about themselves. You honestly think that people paid to be the Greatest in sport aren't bending the rules to suit them?

A partial list of athletics notables who have admitted or been caught doping, via the wikipedia's much more extensive list.

Past superstars/record holders/medalists:

Mary Slaney

Randy Barnes

Carl Lewis

Greg Foster

Regina Jacobs

Marion Jones

Tim Montgomery

Larry Myricks (OG bronze)

Al Oerter

Butch Reynolds

Javier Sotomayor

Martti Vainio

Dieter Baumann

Linford Christie

Tony Dees

Sandra Gasser

Chryste Gaines

Sandra Glover

Chidi Imoh (OG 4x100 silver)

Simon Kemboi (WC 4x400 silver)

Mathew Kisorio (58:46 HM)

Jon Drummond (via Tyson Gay bust)

Mark McKoy

Jud Logan

Mohammed Mourhit (WXC gold, WC silver, ER holder 3000, 5000)

Alvin Harrison (OG 4x400 gold)

Steve Mullings (WC 4x100 gold, silver)

Antonio Pettigrew

Diane Williams (wc 4x100 gold)

Christopher Williams (wc 200 silver)

Julio Rey (2:06 mary, 1st Hamburg, 2nd Fukuoka, bronze EC and Rotterdam)

Kory Tarpenning (US PV gold)

Still competing:

Yohan Blake

Veronica Campbell-Brown

Asafa Powell

Justin Gatlin

Tyson Gay

Sandra Perkovic

Piotr Lisek

LaShawn Merritt

Rashid Ramzi

Mike Rodgers (US relay 4x100 silver Moscow, gold Nassau)

Sherrone Simpson

Dwaine Chambers

Konstantinos Filippidis

Debbie Dunn (4x400 WC gold)

Christine Ohoruogo (missed tests)

Rhys Williams (EC gold 400h)

Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce (opiate)

currently serving bans

Simon Magakwe, SA 100m record holder

Amantle Montsho

Inika McPherson

Mariya Ryemyen

Laila Traby (EC bronze 10000)

Liliya Shobukova

Rita Jeptoo

I have intentionally left out Ben Johnson and Warsaw Pact athletes whose notoriety diverts attention from these other cases, plus some whose sanctions were overturned on technicalities.

Just the currently-competing dopers sweep pretty much all the short sprints at every diamond league meet, plus women's discus, and score points in the pole vault. The past dopers reads like a who's who of track history. At least one holds a currently-standing world record. So excuse the F out of the non-elite for being suspicious.

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

Perfect.

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

post of the week

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

Good one

Bad Wigins wrote:

dope doesn't work in the steeplechase, it's all about technique

I forgot Solinsky and Teg were steeplers when they busted out their AR's.

Back off man, I'm a scientist wrote:

Jerry runs the Control Group.

That was awesome!

Clean vs Dirty wrote:

No one. No one ever associated with Schumacher has done anything to feel suspicious about. How come?

Well let's be real. As people are saying, every elite athlete in the sport has a cloud of suspicion hanging over them. But the NOP's is way worse for good reason.

I know this comparison has been made before but I think it's relevant right now so forgive me for beating it to death. Farah and Tegenkamp. Here's a comparison from before Mo went to the NOP in 2011.

TEG - born Jan '82

PR's

1500 Metres 3:34.25 Athína (Olympic Stadium) 02 JUL 2007

3000 Metres 7:34.98 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 20 AUG 2006

5000 Metres 12:58.56 Bruxelles (Boudewijnstadion) 04 SEP 2009

Finished fourth and eighth at the 07 and 09 WC's and thirteenth at the 08 Olympics (all in the 5k).

MO - born March '83

PR's

1500 Metres 3:33.98 Monaco (Stade Louis II) 28 JUL 2009

3000 Metres 7:38.15 Zagreb 31 AUG 2006

5000 Metres 12:57.94 Zurich 19 AUG 2010

10000 Metres 27:28.86 Marseille 05 JUN 2010

Finished sixth and seventh at the 07 and 09 WC's and did not make it out of the heats at the 08 Olympics (all in the 5k).

I didn't list Teg's U.S. finishes or Mo's Euro finishes but they have similar accomplishments there as well.

These numbers show two very similar athletes. Obviously there's a great deal of information that copy and pasting off of IAAF profiles doesn't account for but I think the basic comparison makes sense. Two athletes with a little over a year age difference, running similar times, with similar finishes at worlds and the og. Then Mo goes to Salazar and it goes straight out the window. He becomes unbeatable on the world scene. Literally unbeatable. I think we in the U.S. underestimate how big a jump he made because he wasn't so much on people's radar over here before the NOP move. Imagine if Tegenkamp got that good all of a sudden? Just blasting fields in the last lap and talking about how Alberto was helping him work on his core strength and sprint form? Like good thing I've been doing abs on the stability ball with Galen or I wouldn't have been able to shit on the Bekele brothers any time, any place, over any distance on the track. Come on.

Obviously there could be other explanations other than Mo doping. It's just another little suspicious thing that doesn't mean anything in exclusivity, but what you see it along with the constantly growing mess of rumors, allegations, and evidence, makes the NOP look really bad. Someone asked why one group gets more grief than the other. It's because one group way more suspicious.

All this being said, Jerry's group has had some sketchy moments. If Rupp has been dirty since high school how good does clean Chris Solinsky have to be in order to crush Galen in that 10k that we all remember? A little too good maybe.

Dirty vs Clean wrote:

All this being said, Jerry's group has had some sketchy moments. If Rupp has been dirty since high school how good does clean Chris Solinsky have to be in order to crush Galen in that 10k that we all remember? A little too good maybe.

So it's Chris's fault that Elfie screwed up his prednisone/androgel/epo-microdose schedule that week?