What has the world come to? ESPN to honor Caitlyn Jenner with the Arthur Ashes courage award.

How about Wilson Kipsiro earn a courage award for facing death threats for speaking up for women who were being raped by their HIV positive coach? It's one thing to be brave in doing something essentially for yourself (even though it may inspire and help others). It's another think to be brave in doing something solely for the well-being of others.

Transphobia = being so scared of transgender community that you are afraid to say a pronoun which isn't approved by them, or criticize decision to give them an award, or saying anything about their looks/lifestyle which isn't approved newspeak, or making a joke about them.

Thats transphobia, the REAL transphobic

I'm not sure if my dog is a woman. Female yes, but gender I am not clear. Until I hear otherwise what should I do?

Calling my dog to come with

"HERE GIRL" may be gender misappropriation, which would be a serious injustice.

Can the pc authorities invent a term for unknown gender like "mwoman"

Thank you

I await being told what I can say

define wrote:

Transphobia = being so scared of transgender community that you are afraid to say a pronoun which isn't approved by them, or criticize decision to give them an award, or saying anything about their looks/lifestyle which isn't approved newspeak, or making a joke about them.

Thats transphobia, the REAL transphobic

Ah yes, the old "you must be a closet fag if you oppose them" argument. It's 2015 buddy, people don't buy the fag arguments anymore. Welcome to the modern world!

Truthhh(in my eyes at least) wrote:

Truthhhhhhh wrote:

LGBT [...] are people characterized by FILTHY conduct..

They want the right to marry [more angry conservative bullshit] these are not immutable conditions of being like race, this is about emotions and conduct.

I'm astonished that you of all people are claiming the moral high ground. I hope your children have gender identity issues so that you can see it's a real thing, not some "liberal conspiracy."

Remember that chick had cancer??? Cuz that's not weorse than just some gender identity issues. I'm fine with my gay friends but haven't recently lost a family member(although not actually to cancer), I'd prefer the gender stuff anyway.

captain & teneel wrote:

I'm not sure if my dog is a woman. Female yes, but gender I am not clear. Until I hear otherwise what should I do?

Calling my dog to come with

"HERE GIRL" may be gender misappropriation, which would be a serious injustice.

Can the pc authorities invent a term for unknown gender like "mwoman"

Thank you

I await being told what I can say

Another poor little victim.

Oh, c'mon. It took A LOT of courage to plow his Hummer into that woman's car.

Tgirl wrote:

Patrick R wrote:

If you do talk to Joanna Harper, ask her if she thinks Bruce deserves the award.

I think I already answered this but let me expand on my previous post

There is a lot of subjectivity in any of these sort of awards, and ESPN is free to give the award to anyone they feel is deserving, but Caitlyn would not have been my first choice.

Let's assume that ESPN wanted to follow-up last year's choice of Michael Sam by giving this year's award to a trans woman athlete. I think that Fallon Fox shows incredible courage to get into the cage surrounded by a wild pack of haters lusting for her blood. Fox also represents the sort of hardships that trans people endure far better Caitlyn Jenner does. So if ESPN had asked me to choose a trans athlete I would have chosen Fallon.

Disgusting. Fox represents how disturbing our society has become. Pump a man full of female hormones and cut his genitalia off and now he can beat women up and it's not domestic violence. Really?? This is circus stuff, folks.

I'm glad to see a real woman like Rhonda Rousey refuse to fight this guy, 'Fallon'. It is despicable for any athletic organization to allow a transgender person to compete. Trans is no longer male or female - they are in a transitive state that they will never escape - never truly a woman, never truly a man. To say this person deserves an award is disturbing at just how far we've come in losing our effing minds.

Think about this: is it doping for an athlete to take a testosterone dose to keep them in the upper limit of normal? I believe it is. Similarly, it should be considered doping to give someone hormone, even in the 'normal ranges', to allow them to compete with the opposite sex. Transgenders are pumped full of hormones to artificially hold them in a transitive gender state - this is doping. Even if estrogen is not an ergogenic aid (can it be?) it's still a hormone therapy that is the only thing allowing a MtF trans to compete with women - it inhibits their 'maleness' but does not completely reverse that the benefits of being a male; it's fraudulent. I understand this may hurt the feelings of transgender people, but likewise, if I was a female athlete forced into competition with 'Fallon' Fox, my feelings would be hurt too - hurt at how absurd society has become and that to compete in my sport I have to unfairly face a man. Where's the PC crowd when you need them?

xenonscreams wrote:

Way more sane take on all of this. Thanks for giving me some faith in this site. I'd love to see that Q&A.

FYI poster Tgirl is Joanna Harper.

gatorade&vodka wrote:

I agree that Caitlyn Jenner is more privileged than other trans individuals, but when you refuse to use her correct name or preferred pronouns you're proving she does not have "every advantage in the world".

I don't see why people freak out if people still refer to Caitlyn as Bruce especially when talking about the past. As a matter of respect call her by what she wants to be called going forward. I saw an article referencing Caitlyn when she was Bruce and it kept saying "she" talking about things 10 years ago. It seemed weird to me, but I wasn't offended. Historically Caitlyn was Bruce and a he then and totally biologically a man.

Caitlyn's own mother has said she will keep calling her Bruce.

And I just noticed this:

Cassius Clay is still listed as the 1960 Olympic boxing champ.

But we have Caitlyn Jenner as the 1980 decathlon champ:

(men)#Decathlon

Can someone explain this to me?

It's ok to refer to Cassius Clay winning the Olympics but if someone refers to Bruce Jenner winning the Olympics that makes them a bigot?

It's a lie, he's a he. It's offensive to reality.

Wejo: You purport to be a jounalist, correct? Do you make an effort to follow AP Style Guidelines?

The Associated Press Stylebook provides guidelines for journalists reporting on transgender people and issues.

According to the AP Stylebook, reporters should "use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics of the opposite sex or present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth. If that preference is not expressed, use the pronoun consistent with the way the individuals live publicly." (see AP & New York Times Style)

When describing transgender people, please use the correct term or terms to describe their gender identity.

For example, a person who was assigned male at birth and transitions to living as a woman is a transgender woman, whereas a person who was assigned female at birth and transitions to living as a man is a transgender man. If someone prefers a different term, use it along with an explanation of what that term means to them.

Avoid pronoun confusion when examining the stories and backgrounds of transgender people prior to their transition.

Ideally a story will not use pronouns associated with a person's birth sex when referring to the person's life prior to transition. Try to write transgender people's stories from the present day, instead of narrating them from some point in the past, thus avoiding confusion and potentially disrespectful use of incorrect pronouns.

"Competing as Bruce Jenner prior to gender transition, Caitlyn Jenner won the Gold Medal at the 1976 Olympics."

See how that works? Misgendering someone when you know the situation is being willfully obtuse and disrespectful, but hey, that's your right is that's how you want to operate in the world.

AP guidelines? lol

in other words, "newspeak"

This. Why is it hateful, or just non-pc, if some of us are opposed to living in the delusional world of those few who are transgender. This is like telling an anorexic as they shrivel and die, "Hey, looking good - you can never be too skinny!". Should we start playing along with other delusions as well?

I would pick Caitlyn over Fallon because Caitlyn has one of the highest sport accomplishments given- an Olympic gold medal!!!!- Jenner was the greatest athlete in the world, everybody recognizes the name Bruce Jenner, and on top of that she is older so the story won't be pushed aside as something from the"PC liberal millineal nut job youth generation" an Olympic gold medal makes you a national hero from a sports stand point. So it's cool to see how people react to their hero when he becomes a she. It's the same person who everyone cheered for but has put all her accomplishments on the line to be who she is. Will people cheer or jeer? Clearly there is a lot of jeering, to put your life's accomplishments on the line like that takes courage and I think ESPN made a good choice because of the higher risk to reputation Jenner took. Some of the most common insults in sports involve phrases like you throw like girl...etc etc. for the worlds greatest athlete to become a girl is pretty risky.

Everyone is born either male or female. You either produce semen or you produce eggs. No one can impregnate themselves, and no man can bear a child, no matter how gruesomely he mutilates his penis and testes. You are what you are.

No one cares about reality anymore. We worship the fantasy world of delusional misery these poor people are lost in, instead of trying to turn them from their self destructive madness. Jenner is not a hero, he's an emotionally broken man who needs help.

rojo wrote:

As others have pointed out, I've never said what he did wasn't difficult or courageous - i'm just outraged that ESPN is honoring as the best example of courage in the entire country.

I don't see how peopel who support my view are guilty of intolerance. I don't see this thread as an example of intolerance. The only intolerance is coming yet again from the PC left who won't allow any opinions different than their own.

Quit blaming the "PC left" for people disagreeing with you and pretending like people are trying to silence your opinion ("won't allow"). I hate that sh!t. People in a discussion disagree. That's what's happening here. Nothing more or nothing less.

"What has the world come to?" - There are MUCH bigger problems in the world than ESPN's selection for the Arthur Ashe award.

"I'm just outraged." - Get over it.

Yes most people are born male or female captain obvious. but girls aren't born wearing a dress, pumps, makeup, boob jobs and getting paid less than men. All of that is culturally driven, it's in our head. So I think there is a lot about gender that's not about the xx xy chromosome. I don't think this is about a desire to bear children, at least I have not heard anyone say Caitlyn wants to get pregnant. Plenty of women have no desire for the pregnancy experience. How do you know she is emotionally broken? Are you just speculating? Have you had a conversation with her? According to Kim, Jenner he's happier than shes ever been.

Xoxo Caitlyn wrote:

Yes most people are born male or female captain obvious. but girls aren't born wearing a dress, pumps, makeup, boob jobs and getting paid less than men. All of that is culturally driven, it's in our head. So I think there is a lot about gender that's not about the xx xy chromosome. I don't think this is about a desire to bear children, at least I have not heard anyone say Caitlyn wants to get pregnant. Plenty of women have no desire for the pregnancy experience. How do you know she is emotionally broken? Are you just speculating? Have you had a conversation with her? According to Kim, Jenner he's happier than shes ever been.

Many schizophrenics and delusionally disordered people are subjectively "happy", but are completely detached from what's real. Common sense tells you something ain't ticking right with a man who wants to cross dress and cut off his dick.