Zat0pek wrote:
I feel for this girl right now. There is likely no way she or her parents could've known they were grabbing a snake by the tail when she signed with Salazar.
I was thinking about this as I've been hearing these allegations for years in some shape or form. One day I was like, "I wonder what would happen if I sent Dr. Cain a letter." Would that be meddling or would they view it as a positive?
Given their Catholic love for each other, I imagine it would have been dismissed.
everyoneknows wrote:
The Dark Side wrote:What age is too young for us to suspect drug use? One year younger than the age Rupp started on testosterone? Two years younger? A year or two OLDER maybe? Funny, but a lot of people would choose the latter if they didn't know the facts.
When I taught school, there was an 8th grade kid in the school who got caught with steroids. Sure, that's probably very rare, but it happens, and a HS sophomore running an NCAA-scoring time seems far more likely to be juiced than some formerly fat kid trying to be a star in his thoroughly average middle school football league. Yes, I'm aware young girls can often run faster than boys the same age, but a 4:11 1,500 as a sophomore is a huge outlier by any standard. It doesn't PROVE drug use, but given the state of T&F, obliterating any national record - even a HS record - HAS to come under suspicion.
A lot of professional athletes see things and don't say anything because they are too scared of Nike and USATF shutting them down. I run with professionals sometimes (on their easy days) and have heard many stories about first hand experiences with NOP and things that they've seen at meets. For example, one of them told me once that she was in the warm up tent where coaches are not allowed right before a race getting her uniform and number all ready. Mary Cain was there. She saw two coaches come in with a cooler, take out a medication, draw it up and give Mary Cain an injection right before the start of a race. It's possible that Mary Cain didn't even know that it was anything but B12 or something else benign. It could have very well been benign, however that is very strange behavior and very fishy. Why is there so much suspicion surrounding the NOP? Because people DO see things like that but don't stand up and report it. It does get whispered around though. I hope more athletes start to tell the truth and their stories about what is really going on there. So the Gouchers and the coach and the massage therapist are all lying? That's a big lie to tell for a lot of risk. What about the others (I hope the others will come forward)? Suspicion like this does not come out of nowhere.
If you are serious about this story, please email me the names of the pros that witnessed it. I'll pass it on to Epstein so he can investigate it. I think a big thing about this report going public is the tide may turn. Instead of people being afraid to come out, the momentum is on their side to come out.
-Rojo
PS. Kind of weird to realize that analogy works for the gay/transgender stuff now as well. The momentum is on their side.
I Think in our sport the momentum is with the anti-dopers.
Zat0pek wrote:
I feel for this girl right now. There is likely no way she or her parents could've known they were grabbing a snake by the tail when she signed with Salazar.
Dad's a doctor. Do you really think for a moment that MC did not already have access to PEDs and testing labs BEFORE she went to NOP? Look at the facts, she broke a 1500m record by 10 seconds. TEN
I am grateful for your interest and the opportunity to share their stories. I believe the best thing to do (and the honorable thing for me to do as their friend) would be to encourage them to contact the media themselves. This has hit us pretty suddenly and pretty hard. I feel that I can try to convince them to come forward, but ultimately I must let them make that choice themselves as it is their name, their reputation, their running career at risk, not mine. Thank you again for listening, it's very possible that they will start to speak out themselves and you will find out about this and other stories from them directly (a more credible source).
I agree with you about the similarities between the social "movements" that have been happening. I guess the whispering has just gotten louder and louder, enough so that it cannot be ignored any longer.
How many now-pros did you meet at Humbodlt state?? Seems fishy to me... Your hometown is palo alto so maybe you rubbed elbows with people in high school?
Herro wrote:
How many now-pros did you meet at Humbodlt state?? Seems fishy to me... Your hometown is palo alto so maybe you rubbed elbows with people in high school?
Don't be freaked out by how he knows where you are from. It is because you did not click "hide your email others" box before posting. I have heard a very similar story to yours concerning Mary before as well. I hope and believe others will come forward with more also.
She and everyone knew about this story coming out over a month ago.
1. I am a she.
2. You're ruining all the fun.
But in all honesty, I do hope she actually knows pros who are willing to talk. It'd be more evidence against NOP.
Wooozz wrote:
I can't imagine what they must be thinking.
Mary goes down hill has to come home and take a break and now BCC bringing the thunder....
Wonder if Mary goes back.
They're happy she's home because she was homesick. That happens you know- some people just don't like to move away.
Some are suggesting here that if she is released from her Nike contract, she'd have NCAA eligibility. Can anyone explain this? I would think that once she signed the contract and took any money from Nike, she's lost her NCAA eligibility permanently. If someone knows differently, I'd appreciate an explanation. Thank you.
The Donger wrote:
Zat0pek wrote:I feel for this girl right now. There is likely no way she or her parents could've known they were grabbing a snake by the tail when she signed with Salazar.
I think Google is a good place to start. How could you not of known.
Because I know many avid runners and their parents who continue to worship Salazar, Rupp, et al simply because they are fast. The level of naivete out there about PEDs even among educated people, including some doctors, is absolutely astonishing. Cain had a rift with her high school coaches and Salazar showed up like a white knight with a fat contract.
John ODonnell wrote:
Some are suggesting here that if she is released from her Nike contract, she'd have NCAA eligibility. Can anyone explain this? I would think that once she signed the contract and took any money from Nike, she's lost her NCAA eligibility permanently. If someone knows differently, I'd appreciate an explanation. Thank you.
I believe that there are one or two precedents where a professional paid back all cash and benefits earned and the NCAA awarded eligibility.
but I think those cases were small - MC being a professional for a year and being flown all round the world and receiving pro coaching aid...I can't believe the NCAA would go for that option.
Claim: Mary Cain never exactly chose running, it chose her. She likes the sport fine but I've never gotten the sense she loves it, and being part of NOP made it very clear to her big a commitment the pro running life is. Maybe she'll go back to that life some day, but she isn't ready to make that kind of commitment now. Would be very funny if she sought the input of Mary Decker, a runner she's mentioned as one of her heroes / inspirations.
I remember reading an interview where she mentioned that she almost gave up running for awhile in junior high?/high school? Salazar was quoted in saying that he's glad she didn't do that, as it would have set her back. To me, the fact that she was considering giving up running, even if for awhile, indicated to me that while she enjoyed it, she wasn't all "RUNNING IS LIFE" so to speak.
Perhaps going to an Ivy near-ish home & being pre-med is sounding pretty darn good to her right now.
rojo wrote:
Given their Catholic love for each other, I imagine it would have been dismissed.
Rojo, you're an arsehole. Your anti-Catholic sentiment is totally uncalled for.
Basically Mary Cain was taking PEDs too. They found out that the allegations were going to come out this year so before the season they took her off everything (hence the slow times this season). Then they decided just to send her home before the whole BBC airing. They are trying to save her career before it is ruined before she is 20. She has to get away from it all and get her system completely cleaned out (only problem is she won't be good enough anymore to be pro). The NOP will be banned and shut down by Nike. I also like how everyone is thinking Mary Cain will transfer to their favorite school now (who cares she can't run there). Centrowitz is just trying to blow it all off because he knows once all this happens he'll be out of job too because he's on PEDs as well. Back to Kenyan dominance we come.
Zat0pek wrote:
I feel for this girl right now. There is likely no way she or her parents could've known they were grabbing a snake by the tail when she signed with Salazar.
Absolutely wrong. When they signed with Salazar, he already had a long, long reputation as shady, from the Athletics West history published in the early 1990s, alleging steroid use, to Mary Slaney's testosterone result in 1996, to numerous other issues. Cain signed less than 3 years ago, I believe, in the fall, after Magness had already left the NOP.
Cain fan wrote:
Mary is going back to NY to be coached by John Henwood - who led her to the greatest success before she headed west. Henwood will get her back to running PR's.
I'm sure that Henwood is a very good coach and one of his virtues is that he is much more laid back than Salazar, and so better for many young fragile athletes, but it has to be said that Henwood was acting as Salazar's proxy in coaching her, with Salazar providing the plan.
hahaha! why in the world would an athlete do illegal drugs/receive illegal assistance IN FRONT OF EVERYONE? did you stop and think about that? c'mon, man. use the head God gave you. as far as cain having readily access to PED's because her father is an anaesthesiologist, that's just as ludicrous. I work as a medical assistant in a major hospital. do you think there's just a huge store room where a doc can go shopping and pick up a few boxes of epo and testosterone? prescriptions are also tracked.
Something tells me your minimum wage job at the hospital doesn't make you privy to everything that goes on there.
use that brain wrote:
hahaha! why in the world would an athlete do illegal drugs/receive illegal assistance IN FRONT OF EVERYONE? did you stop and think about that? c'mon, man. use the head God gave you. as far as cain having readily access to PED's because her father is an anaesthesiologist, that's just as ludicrous. I work as a medical assistant in a major hospital. do you think there's just a huge store room where a doc can go shopping and pick up a few boxes of epo and testosterone? prescriptions are also tracked.
if you knew anything about how hospitals and "the system" worked or about me personally, you'd realize:
1.) how silly your tinfoil hat theory is regarding drug procurement
2.) how hurtful your comment regarding my job is. I had a stroke at age 19 from a brain aneurysm, and have battled back with speech/physical therapy to get through school and now having a full time job.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen has a 1989 Ferrari 348 GTB and he's just put in paperwork to upgrade it
Strava thinks the London Marathon times improved 12 minutes last year thanks to supershoes
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
NAU women have no excuse - they should win it all at 2024 NCAA XC
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?