"Call me Caitlyn Jenner." Annie Leibovitz photos

Shaven wrote:

zxw34 wrote:

On his birdie?

Jenner is older. Probably won't shave the bird.

Trying to understand this. Is age a factor because of possible complications or because menopausal replacement parts aren't available?

Delissssss wrote:

I identify with people in the 17th century. I feel I was born in a body thats in the wrong year. Can I please have the right to change my date of birth on my birth certificate to justify my delusional feelings?

Sure.

And Bruce Jenner can be a woman.

Happy?

Delissssss wrote:

I identify with people in the 17th century. I feel I was born in a body thats in the wrong year. Can I please have the right to change my date of birth on my birth certificate to justify my delusional feelings?

You can be at one with people with similar feelings if you go and join ISIS. Some of them even identify with people from the 5th century.

fsadlkfjalsd;jfal;dfadslfkj wrote:

Delissssss wrote:

I identify with people in the 17th century. I feel I was born in a body thats in the wrong year. Can I please have the right to change my date of birth on my birth certificate to justify my delusional feelings?

Sure.

And Bruce Jenner can be a woman.

Happy?

You seem to undervalue reality.

Delissssss wrote:

I identify with people in the 17th century. I feel I was born in a body thats in the wrong year. Can I please have the right to change my date of birth on my birth certificate to justify my delusional feelings?

Are you really so stupid to think that somehow the parts of the brain that make us feel a certain gender is tied 100% to your genitals?

I mean, you probably look like a person with functional intelligence and reasoning skills, but as you have proven external features can be deceiving.

Instead, maybe you live in Iran, where many find it acceptable to murder homosexuals. I mean, gay people are delusional as well right?

Bruce will always be THE man even if he is a woman.

Does Bruce Jenner have to return her decathlon gold because she failed a gender test?

agip wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Jenner#Olympic_career

I am totally confused by the pronoun use in the wiki article. The Olympic portion of the article uses "she". However, at the time, it was competing as a man. History cannot be changed, therefore in that moment in time, it should be referred to with the "he" pronoun.

Transgendered people face many obstacles in this country such as acceptance, prejudice, and identity. Surprisingly, the most difficult to overcome is the Toyota.

I threw up in my mouth

agip wrote:

TAA wrote:

I think the entire premiss of all gender issues is faulty. It's a cultural issue. All gender issues are based on the idea that there's a set way a man or women is supposed to act and if they break away from their side then they're the other. I think that's ridiculous because there's no set way that a man or a women is supposed to act or look.

some truth there

but

hey, you try living outside of cultural gender norms - you'll see how tough that is. A man wearing dress and makeup will be mocked openly - what jenner wants is to fit in with gender norms. Can't do that as a man - he thinks he has to convert to a woman to do so.

If a man wants to wear dresses and makeup, great for him, but that doesn't make him a woman - any more than wanting to wear kilts makes you Scottish.

There is nothing that intrinsically makes women want to wear dresses or makeup. They are already doing it to fit in with cultural norms - many of them even DISLIKE it but they don't question their identity because of it.

Great Job There wrote:

agip wrote:

some truth there

but

hey, you try living outside of cultural gender norms - you'll see how tough that is. A man wearing dress and makeup will be mocked openly - what jenner wants is to fit in with gender norms. Can't do that as a man - he thinks he has to convert to a woman to do so.

If a man wants to wear dresses and makeup, great for him, but that doesn't make him a woman - any more than wanting to wear kilts makes you Scottish.

There is nothing that intrinsically makes women want to wear dresses or makeup. They are already doing it to fit in with cultural norms - many of them even DISLIKE it but they don't question their identity because of it.

I agree. What a silly post by agip. Bruce Jenner is man who likes to wear dresses and makeup. And that's okay. Doesn't make it him a woman.

It's just horrible to think that men will be allowed in women's spaces because of their delusions. Restrooms, dressing rooms, prisons, etc. Entertaing someone's delusions to the detriment of an entire gender.

HI! Buenos Nochas....

agip wrote:

strange days

what the heck... better he be happy with himself than the alternative.

I didn't know his non-Olympic history - it's worth a read. Blue collar all the way - massive work ethic and came out of nowhere. Still #9 all time US - how many 1970s athletes can say that?

and he has run several businesses.

Apparently after 1976 he left his poles in the stadium - never intended to compete again .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Jenner#Olympic_career

Agree. Let her be content with her decision.

I'm not sure about needing it to be so public. He was and she is, really a media whore - at least of the type that is willing to sell their privacy for a big price.

I knew his family a bit. Very nice people. His farther was a tree doctor. For a long time I had his business card. Don't know why, he just gave it to me. I did them some favors, getting them programs at meets where the Oregon team was working, The family gave me a "Go, Jenner, Go! T-shirt they had made up for their clan. Still have it signed by Bruce after a Deca World Record.

I have two friends who are post op transgender women, who run a Zen retreat outside of San Diego. Met them in a class for large arena public speaking (from a stage). First time I had T friends. One of them is like 6'5", and it was really hard not to call her him, I was so psyched out on some level. She didn't look very "she." Anyway, we're close friends to this day, I learned a lot, and the tall one is a font of Eastern Philosophical knowledge, and great to have existential phenomenology discussion with.

"World takes every kind of people, make what life's about, yeah..."

--The late, great Robert Palmer

I don't think I'll be watching the reality series though. I don't watch those kind of "reality" shoes.

"The Kardashian Girls Get Excited About Going Shopping With Caitlyn...."

Yeah, won't be watching that.

Anything in real life is better than anything on television.

Great Job There wrote:

If a man wants to wear dresses and makeup, great for him, but that doesn't make him a woman - any more than wanting to wear kilts makes you Scottish.

There is nothing that intrinsically makes women want to wear dresses or makeup. They are already doing it to fit in with cultural norms - many of them even DISLIKE it but they don't question their identity because of it.

It is like anything that is beyond the comprehension people who think everything is cut and dry and are too close-minded to even consider that their world view is an inaccurate model of reality.

Do you think that people are only black, white, latino, asian, etc.? Is it possible that transgender may be exactly like what mixed race people were not that long ago: an abomination that was irreconcilable with traditional American family values?

Now, I am not exactly comfortable when I see two men kiss and I still act awkwardly around transgender people. But that does not make them bad people or "sick."

I am not so stupid to think that tolerance and complete acceptance are the same thing. I can be tolerant of others without being their best friends, much less spewing ignorance and vitriol every chance I get.

A Duck wrote:

Anything in real life is better than anything on television.

Never konfuse the Kardasian life with anything that is real life. It doesn't seem possible that Kardasians know what real life looks like, they've been on presentation mode for much too long.

TAA wrote:

Deadman Running wrote:

Wait … What ?

I think the entire premiss of all gender issues is faulty. It's a cultural issue. All gender issues are based on the idea that there's a set way a man or women is supposed to act and if they break away from their side then they're the other. I think that's ridiculous because there's no set way that a man or a women is supposed to act or look.

Exactly. There is an African tribe in which the men do all the things that we consider feminine as far as make-up and hair etc.

Bruce should have just went there.

pronoun trouble wrote:

agip wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Jenner#Olympic_career

I am totally confused by the pronoun use in the wiki article. The Olympic portion of the article uses "she". However, at the time, it was competing as a man. History cannot be changed, therefore in that moment in time, it should be referred to with the "he" pronoun.

That page will be undergoing all sorts of revision and correction. Funny when people try to make things retroactive.

Does it say that Bruce is a daughter and a wife yet?

HeShe Jenner wrote:

Funny when people try to make things retroactive.

Is he also a 2 time virgin?