Some people would actually take Michael Jordan over Lebron James?

My take is that a lot depends on how you frame the question. Basketball is a team game. So who are the teammates? If you tell me that the other 4 players on the court are a bunch of stiffs, I would take Jordan over Lebron (or anybody else for that matter).

On the other hand, imagine lining up the 50 greatest players of all time. Then you and another guy pick a team playground-style rotating back and forth between picks. You get the first pick. In that scenario I would lean towards Lebron. Not only that, I would even lean towards Magic over Jordan. If I know the other players on my team are guys like Hakeem, Julius Erving and George Gervin, Jordan's hyper competitiveness and drive to take over a game becomes kind of annoying. I would want an all around player who can get the most out of their teammates and put the ball where it needs to be.

southern man3 wrote:

The refs would not let people guard Jordan. The calls he got have never been replicated in the history of the game.

The talent of the bulls compared to the rest of the NBA at the time was very high. Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant. They were super athletes.

Cleveland - Miami - Cleveland again - Lebron made all those teams great.

Jordan had to wait how many years before the Bulls had a great team to go to the finals. Lebron's teams have always been competitive as soon as even a very young fresh out of high school Lebron joined the team.

There is no comparison.

19 yr, old Lebron against 19yr. old Jordan. Who would you draft? The obvious choice would be Lebron.

I think a smart GM would probably draft LeBron but Jordan as Lebron can single handily make a bad team great much better than Jordan.

But Jordan is my man. Lebron can get you there and close but if the finals are in doubt? Who dyou want with the game on the line? Are you guys forgetting how Lebron QUIT and totally folded at least twice on the national stage. Game 5 against Boston and Game 4 against Dallas.

Total joke.

I didn't respect Lebron when he played the Mavs in the 2011 finals like I do now. I hated him for going to MIami and was irate that I thought he was giong to be rewarded with a championship but he was scared to death out there in the clutch. He didn't want the ball.

For the seires, he averaged what 18 ppg? Dwayne average 26.

Yes, Miami sucks now without Lebron. But Dwayne Wade did win a title with Miami (albeit thanks to a horrendous call against my Mavs).

I'm guessing you never saw Jordan play in real life. I'm not talking highlight reals, which are in themselves amazing. But I have seen both play. Jordan was on another level and far more athletic.

Bob Bakian wrote:

Try 2 Think wrote:

Pippen has always been VERY tired of being Robin to Jordan's Batman. He clearly feels slighted regarding his role on those championship teams. Anything that downgrades Jordan a bit boosts Pippen's importance in his own eyes.

Try to think just a little bit before posting.

Oh please. As if you know how Pippen feels towards Jordan. Try to think before you post. Lets look at some facts though. Pippen picked Jordan for his hall of fame induction. If Pippen ALWAYS felt very tired of being Robin, then how come he picked Jordan for this?

OK, so you are just trolling. Nobody could be that stupid.

Well done, I suppose. 3/10

southern man3 wrote:

The refs would not let people guard Jordan. The calls he got have never been replicated in the history of the game.

The talent of the bulls compared to the rest of the NBA at the time was very high. Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant. They were super athletes.

Cleveland - Miami - Cleveland again - Lebron made all those teams great.

Jordan had to wait how many years before the Bulls had a great team to go to the finals. Lebron's teams have always been competitive as soon as even a very young fresh out of high school Lebron joined the team.

There is no comparison.

19 yr, old Lebron against 19yr. old Jordan. Who would you draft? The obvious choice would be Lebron.

You definitely never saw Jordan play. The level of athleticism that he had was not something that Lebron can even dream of. Lebron is also not even in the same galaxy with respect to his will to win. Sorry, but anyone who saw these two over the course of their careers knows that there really is no comparison.

And as far as Lebron making those teams great. I hope that you are joking. Certainly he made them MUCH better than they would have been otherwise. But great?!? Come on! Those teams all advanced to the finals out of a truly pathetic Eastern conference. And so far he is 2-3 in the finals - not exactly overwhelming.

As a fan of the sport for as long as i have been, hey I saw Bil Walton play on my old black and white tube TV; The only player I would put ahead of these two is Magic Johnson. No one had the finesse, floor vision and athleticism to play every position on the floor. He was unguardable and made everyone around him better. As good a player Kareem was showtime would not have been showtime without Magic. That said, the most dominate player of all time was Hakeem the Dream. He schooled both Shaq and Patrick Ewing in back to back Championships. He was as big a freak of nature as Kevin Garnet but was a better ball handler, passer and force in the paint. He defined the term Point Center and was unstoppable in his prime.

[quote]Jimmy_Crackhorn wrote:

Unfortunately he never married or fathered kids as far as I know. No Wilt 2.0

[quote]

This guy can't be the only one, either...

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/03/04/wilt-chamberlain-aaron-levi-a-giant-shadow-son-secret

"The thing is Jordan was just as good defender as scorer."

Jordan was a BETTER defender than he was a scorer.

Regardless of who was the more effective player, Jordan was a lot more fun to watch. As a GM trying to fill seats I might take him over Lebron for that reason alone.

Citizen Runner wrote:

Regardless of who was the more effective player, Jordan was a lot more fun to watch. As a GM trying to fill seats I might take him over Lebron for that reason alone.

Pretty much what I was going to post.

Jordan was entertaining to watch.

I don't have an opinion on Lebron v. Jordan (except maybe that I like Lebron more than Jordan; I am not sure who is the greatest). That debate will carry on for a long time with no real conclusion. Anyone who says otherwise is usually selling something.

I do want to correct a few misguided notions in this thread.

(1) The Bulls were a very, very good team without Jordan. c.f. 1993-1994 when the Bulls won 55 games. The Cavs won 19 games (v. 61 the prior season) once Lebron left.

(2) The NBA during Jordan's six titles was one of the weakest times in the NBA. In fact, Jordan couldn't make it to the finals until the end of the Boston/Pistons dynasties (and with the help of Pippen). Jordan won his six titles against 5 different teams. The era of NBA expansion had watered down the league. This fact has been documented by numerous folks.

(3) Jordan played for, arguably, the greatest NBA coach in history. Lebron has not.

Jimmy_Crackhorn wrote:

Wait, wait, what? wrote:

What's marriage got to do with it?

Do you mean to tell me that Wilt went 0 for 20,000? Good thing he wasn't a baseball player!

I feel you, but if there were a bunch of Big Dipper progeny around wouldn't the world know? Unless the mothers had such lousy genes that they canceled out the "second comings"

He mentioned in books that he liked all types of women including small ones but statistics would favor him knocking up either a tall lady or a nice heighted lady with recessive/tall parents/ancestry. Where is Wilt 2.0!?! Is like asking where is the lost city / civ of Atlantis

SI did a story about Wilt's son sometime in the last few months. Wilt knocked up an English woman and the son lives in Cali. SI spoke to the mom, but she wants to remain anonymous, and Wilt's family does not want to meet the kid. It was an okay read. Son is not an athlete. He was big though, about 6' 9 if I recall correctly, and he did look like his dad.

This old track nerd grew up playing basketball in the 60's & 70's on the courts of the Coney Island Projects (yes, the same one from the movie "He's Got Game")

It's natural for people to think that the stars of their generation are the best.

Jordan and James were (are) both superstars of their times and brought different things to the game.

Jordan, Magic, and Byrd made the game global. The Dream Team took basketball to an entire new level and made the members international superstars setting the stage for all the rest to follow.

I have the great pleasure of watching all of the in person including Wilt and Dr. J.

My "opinion" (for their time)

Wilt Chamberlain - The single most dominant force and either end of the court-PERIOD! Critics will say that was because he was that much bigger then everyone else. To some degree that is true but I have seen him toss around other seven footers like they were toys. His numbers are staggering but the most amazing one was that he never fouled out of a game!

Dr. J- was the next version of Elgin Baylor and Connie Hawkins. The combination of his giant hands, great jumping ability, and flair set the stage for Michael.

Lebron James- The most dominant player of TODAY. He could do it all.

Michael Jordan - I could go on and on. But simply put, he is the Babe Ruth of Basketball. But let's take it another step. Michael is one of the very few athletes who is recognizable to non sports fans. People will be talking about him for decades - not Lebron

I've never liked Lebron, but he's better than Jordan. Those saying otherwise are Bulls fans or grew up in the 80's or 90's and subjectively choosing Jordan.

Something interesting I haven't seen brought up is how Jordan lived in the mid-range, something virtually non-existent in today's NBA and makes comparing the two a little more difficult. Main arguments for Lebron:

1. Physically there isn't really anything to compare him to. He's Malone, Magic, and some of the finesse/passing/shooting of Bird.

2. People talk about Jordan's defense a lot but overlook Lebron. I think most experts agree he'd be 1st team defense if his team needed him to be. When focused he's a lockdown defender. Imagine Lebron guarding Jordan vs Jordan guarding Lebron, I think it's an obvious answer which is the favorable matchup.

3. In his prime, which he may be past now, Lebron was putting up some of most efficient numbers of all time in the paint. No guard has been better at the rim.

Mundus Vult wrote:

I do want to correct a few misguided notions in this thread.

(1) The Bulls were a very, very good team without Jordan. c.f. 1993-1994 when the Bulls won 55 games. The Cavs won 19 games (v. 61 the prior season) once Lebron left.

(2) The NBA during Jordan's six titles was one of the weakest times in the NBA. In fact, Jordan couldn't make it to the finals until the end of the Boston/Pistons dynasties (and with the help of Pippen). Jordan won his six titles against 5 different teams. The era of NBA expansion had watered down the league. This fact has been documented by numerous folks.

(3) Jordan played for, arguably, the greatest NBA coach in history. Lebron has not.

Also we are comparing a 19 yr. old boy to a 23 yr. old college grad. I believe the bulls had losing records for their first three years with Jordan.

Also interestingly enough guess who had the higher 3 point completion percentage and the higher assist ratio?

Also Jordan was bailed out a numbers times by the refs.

PS - While I thought Lebron was a huge jerk the first three or four years of his professional career ( I respect and like him now), lets be honest, their was no bigger jerk in the NBA than Jordan. He demanded his own rules and never was a team player.

Those saying Lebron is better are Cavs fans or grew up in the 10's and subjectively choose Lebron.

Mundus Vult wrote:

... In fact, Jordan couldn't make it to the finals until the end of the Boston/Pistons dynasties (and with the help of Pippen)...

Ummm...Jordan ENDED the Boston/Piston dynasties.

Mundus Vult wrote:

(3) Jordan played for, arguably, the greatest NBA coach in history. Lebron has not.

Ummm...Jackson coached with a certain player named Jordan on his team. Jackson himself said that Jordan was so much better than everyone else that it really wasn't fair and that it would have been more fair to have Jordan as one of 4 teammates on the court against the rest of the NBA with 5 man teams.

Next Jackson coached a team with Kobe AND Shaq on it. According to Jackson (again) Kobe and Shaq were the 2 best players in the league at the time - by a lot.

Great coaching? Yeah, right!

Mundier Vultier wrote:

Mundus Vult wrote:

... In fact, Jordan couldn't make it to the finals until the end of the Boston/Pistons dynasties (and with the help of Pippen)...

Ummm...Jordan ENDED the Boston/Piston dynasties.

Fact: the Piston's ended the Celtics dynasty.

Jordan lost three times to the Celtics and then three times to the Pistons. [Jordan NEVER beat the Celtics in the playoffs.]

In the Eastern Conference finals, he then faced:

Detroit, Cleveland, the Knicks, the Magic, the Heat and the Pacers.

You are simply wrong. In his six title runs, he faced 6 different teams in the Eastern Conference Finals and five different teams in the NBA Championship.

Chicago finally beat Detroit the year that Isaiah Thomas had wrist surgery. The core of their team retired in the next two years (including Thomas and Laimbeer) and the rest were sold for parts. Detroit won 20 games in 1993-94 which had nothing to do with Jordan.