The SINGLE BEST WORKOUT for 5k/10k guys

Roberto Romano wrote:

10 minute warm up jog

10 minute tempo run

3x1600m at (5K pace with 90 second standing rests)

3x400m at mile pace with 60 second standing rests)

10 minute cool down

Not a terrible workout, but not great. A 10 minute tempo isn't long enough to get optimal LT stimulus. 3x1600 at 5k pace with 90 seconds rest would be very difficult. Not sure what 3x400 at mile pace would do for you.

@crossfit girl

Here's the thing: the leaner and scrawnier you are as a distance runner, the faster you race. It's such a hyper specific sport. When I can do the least amount of pull-ups and 'look' thin or thinner than normal is when I race fastest. Doesn't mean I feel the best

Distance runners are very fit in a specific way, but I don't think that makes us great all around athletes like you want. We DONT want to be great all-around athletes when training for a race because there's too much mass. We want to be strong, but lean.

In high school I was a 400/800m runner and strong and ripped and could lift as well as the football team even though I was a skinny 160 lbs 6'1", but I wasn't good enough at distance because I didn't run many miles.

You need to stop your diatribes and realize that yes, you probably look stronger/healthier/athletic, but if you really want to be a faster distance runner, (most people on this site) you'd need to change your routine. You know this to be true, I know you do

Trollus Maximus wrote:

There is no single workout that will magically transform your running. Improvement is due to a consistent body of work.

No kidding.

A great workout is hill repeats, followed by a semi-long run (7'sh miles).

Trollus Maximus wrote:

There is no single workout that will magically transform your running. Improvement is due to a consistent body of work.

This is the correct answer.

Now back to the 30/40 workout.

3000m pace/Float but not jog.

Of course this can be adjusted to any distance. This can also broken up in any way. Beginners can start as 400 repeats with rest between each 400. Then progress to 800s, 1200s, etc. This can also be done after a training run.

Run these effort based and not worry about time. As you get fitter your times will get faster.

Perhaps this kind of workout could serve as a step to doing it continuously...?

There is no single best workout.

You need them all.... fast 400's, fast 1000's fast long intervals such as 1000's and 2000's, even 3000's.

You need long runs, You need tempo runs, you need slow recovery jogging to give yourself time to recover.

MAYEROFF wrote:

There is no single best workout.

You need them all.... fast 400's, fast 1000's fast long intervals such as 1000's and 2000's, even 3000's.

You need long runs, You need tempo runs, you need slow recovery jogging to give yourself time to recover.

Welcome back! I was wondering where you went! This place needs some flavor and personality. Now we need trackhead back.

I'm not even going to wade through the drivel that has sprouted on this thread. Curious Cat, I will try doing your workout during my next training block and report back. It seems legit, looks fun, and is a good spin on the mixing of paces, which I already enjoy doing. Thanks for sharing.

sorry, but this is not the best workout.

a good beat of the ole monkey is far superior.

a couple things...

1. its basically the same as Pre's 30/40 workout but for a slower runner.

2. You ever try this workout? Did it make you faster?

I can see doing something like this maybe once a season, but come on this isn't the best workout for a 5km/10km runner.

sure keep the alternation, but a workout that simulates your benefits more is

(1km at Tempo Pace-600m at 10km Race Pace) for 4-8 miles.

here you get a tempo run, learn to gear change, and find your actual race pace. do a couple strides after the workout is over and boom there is your turnover stimulus.

Hello guys. I want to hear your opinions.

Today i did 5x1200m/2:25 jogg on track. Times were 4:08, :10, :10, :10, :6.

My personal 5k is 17:29. I am wondering if this is good training for 5 and 10k. It definitely felt HARD, and i don't think i would be able to do one rep more. Thing is, i do have quite a stamina, so my 10k and 5k paces are pretty close and so are my repetition (200, 400m) workouts which are done at my mile pace. What bothers me is my 400 PR which is 67 seconds, so when doing all above mentioned workouts, i got a feeling (already at the beginnig) i'm close to my top speed.

what to do?

TNX!

lol What?? I think you miswrote 18:29 as 17:29

droppthebase wrote:

Hello guys. I want to hear your opinions.

Today i did 5x1200m/2:25 jogg on track. Times were 4:08, :10, :10, :10, :6.

My personal 5k is 17:29. I am wondering if this is good training for 5 and 10k. It definitely felt HARD, and i don't think i would be able to do one rep more. Thing is, i do have quite a stamina, so my 10k and 5k paces are pretty close and so are my repetition (200, 400m) workouts which are done at my mile pace. What bothers me is my 400 PR which is 67 seconds, so when doing all above mentioned workouts, i got a feeling (already at the beginnig) i'm close to my top speed.

what to do?

TNX!

I don't understand? Was this all out?

bro. wrote:

lol What?? I think you miswrote 18:29 as 17:29

He is running a 5:20 pace , so 17:29 is doable, easy.

That's not how this works.

I'm a big fan of workouts in this vein (very short intervals, continuous running, fast paces not held for long periods), and it's absolutely possible to get a threshold stimulus using interspersed faster running, but this is harder than a threshold workout. If you're going faster than LT pace for part of the workout, you can't just back off an equal amount and expect it to even out.

Also, for your hypothetical runner, this is particularly difficult. Mile pace is really hard. I would suggest that if you're going for a tempo stimulus using much faster running, you have no more than 100 at mile pace. I could do some math to figure out what the "off" portion should be in order to keep it a tempo effort, but you could also just tell people to go by feel.

This is also a significant issue, unless you're just using 5 seconds as an example.

The OP is really onto something here. While of course he didn't invent this workout, he did tweak Bowerman's 30/40 into basically a cruise interval session. As a prior poster pointed out, makes it more doable and allows the runner to get more work in as opposed to simply running to exhaustion. Canova says the best way to improve LT or MP is by doing fartleks with intervals over/under the threshold. This is just a more extreme version of his classic 1k on/1k off fartlek with the pace closely controlled on the track. With the hard 200s at 3k pace, you need to take the offs a little easier. But you don't jog them.

Centro Sr. had his son do a 3200m at 8:56 as 8x(300m@47/100m@20) basically 3k and just slower than marathon pace. This was in the context of a longer session. Some of the old school guys seem to understand the effectiveness of such workouts.

Try a nasty workout "Big Dog":

2400m @10K pace+10sec/3min rest/1600m @10K pace-10sec/2min rest/2400m @10K pace+10sec/2min rest/2x800m @10K pace-10sec, 2min rest in between/2400m @10K pace+10sec/2min rest/2x400 @all out pace

?

...3 weeks before race.

"2. The added turnover stimulus of the fast "on" 200's, at around mile pace"

I'm not sure you are thinking this through. In your example, the 14:00 5k guy running 32.5 (32-33) for his ons would be no where near mile race pace. 32.5s is 4:20 for 1600m... which would likely be 3k race pace for a 14 flat guy. At that point, it would not be about "turnover stimulus" but more of a VO2/aerobic power stimulus. "In and outs" have been done for decades (Bowerman, Huntsman, Brown), and it is much tougher aerobically than just running a straight tempo (mentally and physiologically).

They are good workouts and can add a nice boost during the latter part of the season. No way I'd sub this in for LT work during base building or early season.