Charles Jock and Ryan Martin

Martin won his heat at the Hoka Invite. 2nd fastest time overall behind Loxsom

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/05/results-2015-hoka-one-one-middle-distance-classic-results/

They trained together for a year after college and it did not work. Not sure who was coaching them.

Jock was a major front runner in college and came like .01 away from winning NCAA wire to wire. Now he doesn't lead and doesn't have the same results. I think some people lose their edge when you take away their MO.

Jock had a rough first year out of college and still ran 1:45 working with his coaches from UCI. Nike didn't think it was good enough so they forced him to move to OTC. He is a 400 -800 guy and they are training him like a 800 -1,500 guy so his 400 speed, which was his big advantage, is suffering. He ran 1:46 at OXY but I agree he seems to have "lost his edge".

Far Out West wrote:

Jock had a rough first year out of college and still ran 1:45 working with his coaches from UCI. Nike didn't think it was good enough so they forced him to move to OTC. He is a 400 -800 guy and they are training him like a 800 -1,500 guy so his 400 speed, which was his big advantage, is suffering. He ran 1:46 at OXY but I agree he seems to have "lost his edge".

They will both stumble along until the next games trials and it will be over for them both. Lost in the system might best describe their plight,no real elite coaching to get them to next level. Ryan back in SB with his sucky college coach.

It is almost like they don't want Jock to run 1:43... Moving to Oregon is like taking qualudes for a kid used to seeing the sun regularly.

Martin could run 1:44+ choosing his workouts randomly and keeps his mileage below 40/week... ucsb training is like a worm hole to the 1960's

Jock does have excellent coaching, but perhaps like someone mentioned, it's too much of a middle distance program and he needs a long sprint program.

He should move to Johnny Gray or someone I can't think of immediately.

I agree with the above poster who said he should be running 1:43. Heck, Scott Razco could get his guy back to 1:44 in no time.

It seems like Jock is stuck at 1:46-1:48 and his open 400 is at 48. Both are not near his prs. I hope he gets it together because he seems like a good kid.

They are now both faced with the decision to dope and reach the next level, or fade away.

Jock is perfectly suited for a guy like Johnny Gray and training with Duane Solomon, which would be good for all of them, because Jock had that same talent and mentality. He's got to get his speed back. He looked like an incredible talent in college. I don't know about Martin, but he does the longer tempos in the off-season, so maybe he would be best suited for a training program like Rowland's up at OTC. No reason why both these guys shouldn't be running 1:43s after multiple sub 1:45's in college and legendary conference battles.

jjjjj wrote:

Jock is perfectly suited for a guy like Johnny Gray and training with Duane Solomon, which would be good for all of them, because Jock had that same talent and mentality. He's got to get his speed back. He looked like an incredible talent in college. I don't know about Martin, but he does the longer tempos in the off-season, so maybe he would be best suited for a training program like Rowland's up at OTC. No reason why both these guys shouldn't be running 1:43s after multiple sub 1:45's in college and legendary conference battles.

Correct. It's funny how no one realizes just how fast Martin was over the 400 in college, they assume he's all strength. Both guys should be hitting 1:43 regularly, and in fact should be knocking off the old farts like Solomon and even Symmonds (even if he can regain his form). Martin's training in college was even more primitive than Jock's, and Jock's wasn't very good. LOL

I don't know why you're saying both their training was primitive in college, because whatever they did back then obviously worked.

And wouldn't Martin's training be the same now as it was then?

I feel like if UCSB got a good coach that wasn't an a$shole, they'd become really good. Like 3rd best California XC team and a pretty good track team. The amount of talent that goes there and dies is crazy. I think only a few people can successfully work with that coach and Martin is one of them. They got a 1:49 guy a few years ago who is now a senior and hasn't broken 1:51. That really sucks. But I have heard that they're getting a new track finally.

Nobody here has a clue (surprise!).

When Jock was at UCI and won NCAAs and made the USA WC team, he was coached by Skip Pickens. Skip is a (long) sprint coach and there was nothing at all wrong with Jock's training. But what really happened is that Vince O'Boyle retired as the UCI Head and Skip was (and still is) Vince's replacement. The reason Jock was still competing well (~1:45) for 1 year was that Skip was still coaching him. Then he went to Oregon and it all went over a cliff. Charles would have been better off with Joaquim Cruz who coaches at the OTC in Chula Vista but Nike didn't give him that choice.

BTW, Jock ran 46.02 at UCI in his senior year. Not any more.

I should have mentioned that the reason Skip stopped coaching Charles is that he didn't have the time with his new responsibilities as head coach.

"Skip's" squad didn't look so good today.

Far Out West wrote:

Jock had a rough first year out of college and still ran 1:45 working with his coaches from UCI. Nike didn't think it was good enough so they forced him to move to OTC. He is a 400 -800 guy and they are training him like a 800 -1,500 guy so his 400 speed, which was his big advantage, is suffering. He ran 1:46 at OXY but I agree he seems to have "lost his edge".

re: " a 400 -800 guy and they are training him like a 800 -1,500"

That actually happens a lot, I have talked H.S. 400/800 athletes out of going to certain colleges I knew would try to train him like a 800/mile type. I works sometimes, but it simply does not work for fast twitch guys. The good thing is, once an athlete like Jock gets back to more speed oriented training, they bounce back.

Given the trajectory of their performances, no coaching changes in sight,inability to make a world championship team or be competitive in a major meet, retirement is close at hand. Lost in the cracks. Bobby Andrews same story.

Its sad that there is not a national program to help emerging elites when you have athletes like these two clearly floundering. Back into collegiate environment is not the answer.

Quite simple really - life as a collegian vs life as a "pro".

Very few can handle the fact that all of a sudden life isn't completely structured for them and that running is now the focus of their lives (vs college with school, girls and beer).

Look at guys like Andrews, Fernandez - could go on forever with this list - these guys are no different.

Unless you totally understand the big picture like a (as an example) Nick Willis does you are just a collegiate talent that never was in the pros..