Mary Wittenberg Steps Down as President of New York Road Runners to Head Virgin Sport

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  • Merle
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 2:13pm CDT
    re: NYCRUNS Better
    Forum Index
    NYCRUNS Better wrote:

    I know you live in your own myopic world but it might be beneficial to open your eyes up and see what is going on around you. You actually might learn something.

    I've read all of your posts and it's pretty rich, you calling someone else myopic. You have made it perfectly clear that NYRR should cater to your desires. It does not do that and you don't like it. Message received.
  • jjjjjj
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 2:37pm CDT
    re: alapaha
    Forum Index
    That article does not say how much NYRR charges. It says that the price went up $60 that year. Even if they charge the equivalent of $60/runner, how does that justify a $221/260ish fee, plus $11 for entry? Huntsville charges $60 total. It's obvious that security is not behind more than a quarter of the race fee, and who says it is even that much?
  • alapaha
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 2:42pm CDT
    re: jjjjjj
    Forum Index
    jjjjjj wrote:

    That article does not say how much NYRR charges. It says that the price went up $60 that year. Even if they charge the equivalent of $60/runner, how does that justify a $221/260ish fee, plus $11 for entry? Huntsville charges $60 total. It's obvious that security is not behind more than a quarter of the race fee, and who says it is even that much?

    I don't know, jj

    but the fact that the NYC Tri costs $300 and the NYC Grand Fondo costs $200-$300 probably suggests that comparing prices from NYC events to Utah or Alabama is not an apples to apples comparison.
  • Tracktruther
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 2:43pm CDT
    re: alapaha
    Forum Index
    I'll be much more direct than others here. Local competitive running has been completely hijacked by hobby joggers who are willing to pay vast sums of money to complete a marathon in 5hrs+ with zero to no training. They then flash their race photos on Facebook and slap the 26.2 sticker on their cars for the "look at me" effect. So if you're suggesting in any way I should not only resign to that but actually be happy about this "growth" you are very out of touch.

    Most of us here don't want to see meatheads and tutu-wearers flooding our local races. I run because I love to run and I encourage anyone to take up running to stay in shape and challenge themselves. Most of all it's a sport one can hopefully be active in for their whole lives. So if you can't understand why we feel the local running scene is hurt by all the commoditization and consumerism then you are plain and simple brain washed. Given you do tris, I really don't expect you to understand though.
  • alapaha
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 2:48pm CDT
    re: Tracktruther
    Forum Index
    Tracktruther wrote:

    I'll be much more direct than others here. Local competitive running has been completely hijacked by hobby joggers who are willing to pay vast sums of money to complete a marathon in 5hrs+ with zero to no training. They then flash their race photos on Facebook and slap the 26.2 sticker on their cars for the "look at me" effect. So if you're suggesting in any way I should not only resign to that but actually be happy about this "growth" you are very out of touch.

    Most of us here don't want to see meatheads and tutu-wearers flooding our local races. I run because I love to run and I encourage anyone to take up running to stay in shape and challenge themselves. Most of all it's a sport one can hopefully be active in for their whole lives. So if you can't understand why we feel the local running scene is hurt by all the commoditization and consumerism then you are plain and simple brain washed. Given you do tris, I really don't expect you to understand though.

    I don't do triathlons.

    I've rarely read a paragraph so simultaneously full of condescension and self contradiction

    You encourage 'anyone' to take up running but then when they do, and they get in your way, you call them meatheads and tutuwearers. Gotcha.

    another poster had it right - you people are myopic. you want one thing. The NYRR doesn't do it. So you condemn the NYRR. ok fine. got it.
  • let me guess....
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 2:56pm CDT
    re: Xfit_guy_the_real_1
    Forum Index
    Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

    NYCRUNS Better wrote:
    The fitness options in NYC today are nearly limitless with fancy gyms all over the place that offer class after class. SoulCycle, Bikram, CrossFit,

    What does Spinning or yoga have to do with fitness?

    Ever seen a BUFF yoga athlete? A soulcyclist with a nice V-shaped PHYSIQUE that women lust after? No?

    Guess why!

    Answer: Steroids haven't hit those sports yet?


    Is that the right answer?
  • pop_pop!
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 3:22pm CDT
    re: alapaha
    Forum Index
    alapaha wrote:

    http://www.outsideonline.com/1980406/why-richard-branson-would-hire-smartest-woman-running?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost

    some speculation on what Mary will be doing

    Should be interesting - she seems to care about both grass roots/youth and elite - with Branson behind her it could be very good.

    (of course sticks in the mud will commence mass grumbling at this point)

    This bit of speculation nicely illustrates the growth is not running but physical activity events. It's about people with lots of extra time and money to do an event.

    Promoters are very, very quiet about their business. All the hubub and private equity interest suggests the profits are very big.
  • Not a NYRR member
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 3:30pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
    Forum Index
    Unfortunately, I am not fast enough to quality for NYC, nor am I wealthy enough to raise thousands of dollars for a select charity (my friends are poor, too). I'm told that my proximity to the race (I live an hour away) means my chances in the lottery would be practically nil. The 9+ program is out of reach for me because the cost involved in getting in and out of the City nine times in one year is not within my time or money budget right now.

    I can live without ever doing the NYC marathon. However, I can see why long-time NYRR members and other local runners would get annoyed.

    You say that the NYC marathon is promoting the sport of running in the U.S. And yet, organizers seem hellbent on using the event to sell lavish tourist packages to folks outside of the U.S., so that they can then crow about what an "international" event it has become. It has become less a race and more a parade of nations--NYC's version of Disney's "It's a Small World"--at the expense of local runners and NYRR members. Mary's "fellow citizens of the world" speeches and the "sob stories" of runners they profile when promoting it are good examples of how self-important the event has become. That tone permeates the local TV coverage--and it detracts from coverage of the elite race.

    I understand there's a financial side to it--promising local businesses an influx of tourists who will stick around for a week or more and spend money is a necessary tradeoff for shutting down the roads for a day or so. But it seems to me that, when it comes to NYRR's flagship race, the next leader should strive to strike a better balance between money and members.
  • alapaha
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 3:33pm CDT
    re: pop_pop!
    Forum Index
    pop_pop! wrote:

    alapaha wrote:

    http://www.outsideonline.com/1980406/why-richard-branson-would-hire-smartest-woman-running?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost

    some speculation on what Mary will be doing

    Should be interesting - she seems to care about both grass roots/youth and elite - with Branson behind her it could be very good.

    (of course sticks in the mud will commence mass grumbling at this point)

    This bit of speculation nicely illustrates the growth is not running but physical activity events. It's about people with lots of extra time and money to do an event.

    Promoters are very, very quiet about their business. All the hubub and private equity interest suggests the profits are very big.


    well sort of but not really.

    usually private equity gets interested when profits are NOT big, but with some changes, they could be.

    For example, mary might think that the rock n roll series has a decent brand and footprint, but its costs are too high and its marketing could be better.

    So virgin fitness rolls in, buys out the series cheap (because the profits are lower than they should be), then they either cut costs or increase marketing or up the entry fee or put in their own management team or...

    the better way to look at this is that millions of healthy rich people are doing races and mary and richard branson think money is being left on the table. No doubt when entering races, virgin will be collecting your info and trying to cross sell other items from the Virgin line - like banking, rocketship tickets, phones, etc.
  • alapaha
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 3:39pm CDT
    re: Not a NYRR member
    Forum Index
    Not a NYRR member wrote:

    Unfortunately, I am not fast enough to quality for NYC, nor am I wealthy enough to raise thousands of dollars for a select charity (my friends are poor, too). I'm told that my proximity to the race (I live an hour away) means my chances in the lottery would be practically nil. The 9+ program is out of reach for me because the cost involved in getting in and out of the City nine times in one year is not within my time or money budget right now.

    I can live without ever doing the NYC marathon. However, I can see why long-time NYRR members and other local runners would get annoyed.

    You say that the NYC marathon is promoting the sport of running in the U.S. And yet, organizers seem hellbent on using the event to sell lavish tourist packages to folks outside of the U.S., so that they can then crow about what an "international" event it has become. It has become less a race and more a parade of nations--NYC's version of Disney's "It's a Small World"--at the expense of local runners and NYRR members. Mary's "fellow citizens of the world" speeches and the "sob stories" of runners they profile when promoting it are good examples of how self-important the event has become. That tone permeates the local TV coverage--and it detracts from coverage of the elite race.

    I understand there's a financial side to it--promising local businesses an influx of tourists who will stick around for a week or more and spend money is a necessary tradeoff for shutting down the roads for a day or so. But it seems to me that, when it comes to NYRR's flagship race, the next leader should strive to strike a better balance between money and members.

    holy cow - reasonableness!

    I suppose I'd say in Mary's defense that if you are far enough away that 9+1 isn't tenable, you aren't really local.
  • pop_pop!
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 3:49pm CDT
    re: Not a NYRR member
    Forum Index
    Not a NYRR member wrote:
    organizers seem hellbent on using the event to sell lavish tourist packages to folks outside of the U.S....
    I understand there's a financial side to it--promising local businesses...

    All I see is dollar signs.. with the sweetener that the mayor's office will 'tame' city bureaucrats.

    Great business!! Just have to get big enough to keep the Mayor's office on the chain. Not easy!!
  • Meluvsit
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 3:50pm CDT
    re: alapaha
    Forum Index
    This thread is classic LRC. You've got the disgruntled hobbyjogger-hating hardcore runners, brojos chiming in with crappy responses, a NYC elitist who is being trolled to hell, and of course, last but not least X_fit_the_real_douche.

    Don't you people work?
  • alapaha
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 3:53pm CDT
    re: Meluvsit
    Forum Index
    Meluvsit wrote:

    .

    Don't you people work?

    yes, but with little discipline
  • Not One To Usually
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 4:13pm CDT
    re: Meluvsit
    Forum Index
    I really hate the snobbism (unwarranted and certainly unearned) directed by people here at "hobbyjoggers," but as a New Yorker, let me mention two incidents that lead me to believe that no, there is NOT another running boom, there is just a boom of people entering alleged "running" events, which is not the same thing.

    The MORE/Fitness Half Marathon for Women, which the NYRR puts on, has ninety percent of its entrants barely moving before the first half-mile is over. Barely even walking. I wish that was hyperbole.

    I contributed to the NYC Marathon charity effort of a neighbor, a woman in her 30s. As the weeks leading to the race passed, I was wondering why someone supposedly training for a marathon was actually gaining weight (no, she was not pregnant). She ended up doing the marathon in about 6:20. Haven't seen her run since.

    So yeah, it's not a running boom. It's an "entering races" boom.
  • befused and confuddled
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 4:19pm CDT
    re: Not a NYRR member
    Forum Index
    Not a NYRR member wrote:
    You say that the NYC marathon is promoting the sport of running in the U.S. And yet, organizers seem hellbent on using the event to sell lavish tourist packages to folks outside of the U.S,

    Does the nyrr actually sell tour packages or are those packages sold by unrelated businesses that take advantage of the travel demand created by the race and give nyrr some sort of a fee?
    I have never seen any ads for the nyrr travel division and none come up on their website.
  • jjjjj
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 4:55pm CDT
    re: NYCRUNS Better
    Forum Index
    and people are more obese than ever. all these fads are accomplishing nothing other than putting money into hedge fund managers operating fake charities.
  • jjjjjj
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 5:00pm CDT
    re: jjjjjj
    Forum Index
    jjjjjj wrote:

    That article does not say how much NYRR charges. It says that the price went up $60 that year. Even if they charge the equivalent of $60/runner, how does that justify a $221/260ish fee, plus $11 for entry? Huntsville charges $60 total. It's obvious that security is not behind more than a quarter of the race fee, and who says it is even that much?

    That should read: that NYT article does not say how much NYC charges NYRR to close the streets and provide security for the marathon (or half marathon). So, if there was a $60 increase, we don't even know how much of that was due to security, but even if it was all of it (doubtful), that is still just a quarter of this outrageously priced race.
  • jjjjj
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 5:38pm CDT
    re: jjjjjj
    Forum Index
    I read the NY Times story about Peter Ciaccia today, which gives me some skepticism about him that I didn't have from seeing him start the races. I'll wait and see, but the article made it pretty clear that he embraces the entertainment and world runner sides of the race, as an ex-music promoter.
  • NYforNYers
    registered
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 5:40pm CDT
    re: NYCRUNS Better
    Forum Index
    If you want to see the hockey stick growth in running, you need to look more broadly to middle distance races and you need to specifically look at the segmentation of masters age runners and women.

    Your attempt to show that Crossfit is growing at a uniquely fast pace among fitness activites because its open went from 0 to 209,000 in a handful of years is sort of silly because the numbers are basically rounding errors. And crossfit growth is already plateauing -- I'll put money down that there wont be a open with half a million participants before 2020.

    Female race finishers grew from 1,199,200 in 1990 to 10,844,200 in 2013. That's 18+% annualized growth on top of a respectable base. And while crossfit boxes push heavily to encourage their members to participate in the "games", growth in competitive running is largely driven by participant self-motivation and not contingent on membership in a related paid program or in response nationally coordinated marketing campaign.

    http://www.runningusa.org/2014-state-of-the-sport-part-III-us-race-trends

    The reality is that running dwarfs other fitness activities in size and is itself growing at a tremendous pace. As compared with other sporting activities, its also a relatively low-cost endeavor which means that there is a huge amount of room to capture additional revenue from lifestyle participants and that customers are less likely to be highly price sensitive. This is big business and the sad thing is that before being sold down a river by the likes of George Hirsch and Mary Wittenberg, NYRR was a great community based organization that facilitated runner access to city streets and parks. Now its a proxy for corporations who want to sell back to us what we used to own outright.
  • Randy Oldman
    4 years ago 05/14/2015 6:00pm CDT
    re: alapaha
    Forum Index
    I think his post was a little tongue in cheek