Mary Wittenberg Steps Down as President of New York Road Runners to Head Virgin Sport

It was $25 around 2009 and it was a great event back then too

Races with 5000 plus people aren't "decent" sized races. They are enormous races that generate enormous amounts of revenue. It's completely ridiculous that you think that the weekly races in Central Park with 5000 plus runners are cheaper or the same price as comparable races outside of the city because there are very few races of that size with that kind of revenue. The ones that are possibly comparable in size (Shelter Island, Cow Harbor, Newport HM, Newport 10K, Ridgewood, Ashenfelter, etc) offer a MUCH better race experience both before, during and after the race. Are you serious that you think it's perfectly acceptable for a race taking in over $200,000 in revenue only has fire hydrant water in cups at the finish line and no food?

It's also ridiculous that you seem to think running in races in NYC is "not a cheap sport." Really? It never used to be like that and the only reason why it changed is that the regular NYRR members now are forced to foot the bill for the professional fields and youth programs.

Brooklyn also isn't $50. It's $65 (and $85 for non-members) but why let the facts get in the way of some of your ridiculous claims? Your bias couldn't be more obvious when you babbled Brooklyn is "cheaper than just about any other city streets HM around." Well, no. The Newport HM is $40 for everyone (you don't have to join a club to get a discount) and there is $3,000 in prize money, including masters prize money.

Also, yes, it is very obvious that NYRR employees are going to pepper this thread with misinformation trying to defend their bloated overpriced races.

This, 100% this.

I think this would be the consensus of the majority of members of established running clubs, CPTC, WSX, NYAC, Harriers, Westchester etc. Maybe some of their members could respond to this post to give their views.

I remember Mary yelling at the start of a race about how great it would be to have the Olympics in New York, the response being almost complete silence

I ran the Brooklyn Half in 2006, $11, 2,352 runners, 33 degrees at the start.

well unless someone inflames me beyond control, I'm checking out of this thread.

Bottom line is that it costs around $25 for members to do a regular race with NYRR vs. $30-$40 elsewhere. The competition is excellent, the corral system ensures faster people get a decent start, it starts on time, etc. ok the food and t shirts could be better but I don't care about food.

You can cherry pick a few great races but that's not really fair - I love away races but I'm not going to travel every few weeks to find a good, cheap, competitive, fun race. There aren't enough of them and travel is very expensive around the NE. I've gone to so many lame races with no competition...sick of that. In a race I like to race people.

The NYCM and NYCHM are expensive, for several reasons, including the sky high charges from the city. That's why the NYC Triathlon is $300, the grand fondo is $200-$300...Could the NYCM and NYCHM be cheaper? Probably, but if they were $40 cheaper would that change your views? probably not.

NYRR detractors seem to long for some small town version of racing...it might have existed, I dunno. I've been around 30 years and to think people criticize what NYC has going...it's hard to please everyone. I'll just say these races sell out at 5000 people for a good reason.

I had the price of the bkln half wrong by $15? ok, my mistake.

Randy Oldman wrote:

I think this would be the consensus of the majority of members of established running clubs, CPTC, WSX, NYAC, Harriers, Westchester etc. Maybe some of their members could respond to this post to give their views.

I'm on a team you mention and I don't hear many complaints about the NYRR other than that the races sell out too fast. (Which is hardly a condemnation when, after all, they want to do the race)

to think a 'majority' of my team feels this way is not possible.

Amen brother. As soon as the website was revamped to keep your profile, save CC# and make registration a shopping experience I knew we were in big trouble. Every time there has been a big issue or the masses complain the response is always to divert. When people complained the NY marathon price tag was just too much they said they had to pay for the local police security. I guess security costs quadrupled somehow. Remember when they announced they would cancel the bag checks to "make the finish line a more pleasant experience"? It was obviously a cost cutting initiative that would have screwed all participants. There was a quick 180 and they suddenly offered the option to say no to bag check and get a finisher poncho. So out of touch... At the end of the day, I want to put on my flats, show up a reasonable time before the start (not 2 hours in advance so I can make it to corral before they close it), be timed properly and grab a bottle of water and piece of fruit/bagel at the end. It's a very simple thing. I know it's a big city, but these races were run perfectly before the multiple layers of commercial and logistical complexity were added on.

I'm not "cherry picking" a few great races: I'm merely listing the few races outside NYC that are comparable in size to the weekly NYRR ones in Central Park. Which races did I omit? Do you even know what the term means because your usage of it makes no sense?

I'm also not trying to convince you to do races outside of NYC like you incorrectly think. The only reason why I listed these other races was to show that it actually is possible to put on a large race in the NYC metro area that has good prize money and good extras despite you claiming otherwise.

Your bigger mistake was falsely claiming that Brooklyn was cheaper than any other city streets HM around. I don't really have a beef with Brooklyn's price but your blatant false information about its price and how every other local HM is more expensive needed to be pointed out.

If they brought down the price of ANY race, it would definitely make a difference. It would at least show they are using some common sense and trying to make it more affordable. It's people like you who just like to go along with the 'success stories' that do the sport a disfavor. We all need to lobby for a better package, but most are blind to the issues. Who cares about $15 right?

it sounds like many are not aware that the city of NY changed its policies that increased costs to events - police and sanitation used to be free, then they got very expensive, overnight. The NYRR had to increase fees a lot to get that paid for.

here are some links

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/03/sports/new-york-city-marathon-raises-entry-fee.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/10/sports/10running.html

UnhappyCustomer wrote:

If they brought down the price of ANY race, it would definitely make a difference. It would at least show they are using some common sense and trying to make it more affordable. It's people like you who just like to go along with the 'success stories' that do the sport a disfavor. We all need to lobby for a better package, but most are blind to the issues. Who cares about $15 right?

didn't they do a series of no-frills races last year? I'm not sure what the result was but it seems they didn't repeat them.

So they tried lowering some costs, but I don't know what the result was.

So now, knowing that, do you agree that they are using some common sense and trying to make it affordable? Did you do one of those?

There is not enough transparency into these costs. Also, the fact that the city is charging events for their services is a hint that perhaps the NYRR should look to minimize their races a bit. A couple of years ago Mary suggested they may break up the marathon into two days... how would that have helped to decrease costs? It doesn't sound like someone who is particularly worried about those costs. People understand it's not easy to put together a race, but prices have skyrocketed and I've been around long enough and don't see any added benefits. In other words, they have been gouging our eyeballs out and you seem to enjoy that.

The nyrrCLUB essentially died when Joe Klienerman's cigar box was retired.

The club in the nyrrclub was dropped long after the actual running club was replaced by the not for profit business of 'fitness and health promotion' paradigm in place now.

Nothing is as good as it used to be is incorrect. It's a new business organization and has been for a long time. Not for profits are businesses without the mandate to create profit (or boons) for shareholders.

3

unfair characterization of what you said.

I could find many races that are MORE expensive than a NYRR weekly race and give LESS. Would that prove anything? I paid $25 to do a NYC runs 5k in riverside park. It had 100 people, a crappy tshirt, no age group awards, 1 guy below 18 minutes.

oh forget it. NYRR could possibly do a better job. Sure. it is possible to put on better races. But the sharp complaints are unfounded. They are doing well. Esp when you understand that they have 5000 person races almost every week - that's some serious logistics that a one-off race doesn't have to deal with.

I got to get back to work!

dude you totally work for NYRR

you are working

alapaha wrote:

it sounds like many are not aware that the city of NY changed its policies that increased costs to events - police and sanitation used to be free, then they got very expensive, overnight. The NYRR had to increase fees a lot to get that paid for.

here are some links

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/03/sports/new-york-city-marathon-raises-entry-fee.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/10/sports/10running.html

The links you posted don't exactly advance your argument. Police costs went up so NYRR decided to pile on and massively raise its fees to not only cover the increased police costs but also to make more money for itself. The increased police costs was a nice cover for NYRR to raise fees that it otherwise would have gotten a lot of blow back on. Clearly, it worked in duping people like yourself into thinking that those increases merely were NYRR innocently passing along the new police fees to the entrants. Oh how I wish I were so gullible. It would make life so much easier.

Exactly - just like the whole bag check debacle. It was all about squeezing more revenue out of the event. According to them it was meant to improve the finish line experience. Really??? I just ran a marathon, I'm tired and can't move.. and most of all I need my warm clothes!

Hey alapaha - I have some stuff I'd like to sell to you. Don't worry about the price, just buy my stuff. It needs to be pricy to cover all my costs. Just believe me ok? I only take blank checks.

UnhappyCustomer wrote:

Exactly - just like the whole bag check debacle. It was all about squeezing more revenue out of the event. According to them it was meant to improve the finish line experience. Really??? I just ran a marathon, I'm tired and can't move.. and most of all I need my warm clothes!

Hey alapaha - I have some stuff I'd like to sell to you. Don't worry about the price, just buy my stuff. It needs to be pricy to cover all my costs. Just believe me ok? I only take blank checks.

it costs the same or less than other stuff? and is more competitive? and right outside my door? Cool, I'll take it.

(I have no idea what they were doing with that no baggage check thing - but to their credit they backed down)

I'm pretty much a fan of Wittenberg's. The one undeniably valid criticism, though, involves the long speeches she gives when racers are already lined up. I've even heard the invited elites complain about it.