ESPN Story About Madison Holleran

Wow, sad indeed. You can NEVER get over the death of your child

I'm wondering out loud what leads certain people to take this drastic act, while others in dire situations do not. Is it purely chemical, and has nothing to do with social status, level of talent or achievements or are there other important factors. Could there be a factor of kids that are over protected and in somewhat of a cocoon growing up and therefore struggle more than others with change/being on their own? Is the added factor of someone who is extremely demanding of themselves (and where does that come from) so challenges take on an ever more significant weight.

It seems for all intents and purposes, she had a pretty good childhood, could the weight of expectations be too much?

We hear about people in North Korean prisons enduring the worst hell, and yet they somehow will do anything to live. I know from personal experience that concentration camp survivors who were cruelly pulled from their lives, saw their families murdered, endured horrific experiences yet had a fierce will to live (My late Mother survived Auschwitz)

So, really I am asking as I don't understand enough about what drives some people and not others to take this final (and in this case, very pre-meditated step)?

I wish Madison were still around. I have so many questions for her. My freshman year went very similarly, in that it seemed like every talent I had just evaporated. I went from being very happy with myself to completely hating myself, which hasn't really changed. I feel like if I knew how she thought, then maybe I could compare it to myself, and maybe put together a pattern about what the hell went wrong. Regardless, she's gone. Huge loss, and I hope the world misses her as much as she deserves to be missed.

I wonder if she felt overwhelmed by XC. Looking at athletic.net, it looks like her freshman year at Penn was her first season ever, and she was finishing 40-100 in the handful of races she ran. For someone who ran 2:08 in HS and was a star soccer player, it would be tough to be a mid-packer in a new event.

canadian wrote:

We hear about people in North Korean prisons enduring the worst hell, and yet they somehow will do anything to live. I know from personal experience that concentration camp survivors who were cruelly pulled from their lives, saw their families murdered, endured horrific experiences yet had a fierce will to live (My late Mother survived Auschwitz)

So, really I am asking as I don't understand enough about what drives some people and not others to take this final (and in this case, very pre-meditated step)?

It has nothing to do with anything physical. In the situations you described, the people where in immediate physical danger. This actually drives the instinct to survive. While Madison was on the way to the parking garage that day, I can say with confidence she would have defended herself against any immediate danger such as an oncoming car. The suicide is not comparable to that. It is the feeling that, while you are not in immediate physical danger, you are in such mental pain that voluntarily putting yourself in physical danger is the less painful option.

Madison didn't want to escape life. She wanted to escape her mind. She put it perfectly - she wasn't locked out (she had her family, friends and loved ones who she desperately wanted to join). She was locked into her own head. In her way, suicide was the only way to get out of her head and back into the lives of her loved ones, even if she couldn't do it while living.

How do we find ways to help kids suffering like this get out of that locked scenario without resorting to this?

As someone who has suffered depression at times and known a close friend who has seriously considered suicide, this is a strong story.

It is hard to understand what drives someone to give up the will to live. The most primal instinct; the will to live. We don't have to understand why this occurs, we have to understand how to help those that are in this same situation. And by extension how this comes to pass. It's natural survivors guilt to try and determine why, however irrational the conclusion may be. Just always know the people around you have been through the same struggle that is known as LIFE.

Depression can be a scary illness. My brother has it and it has very nearly driven him to suicide.

Depression is common in high achievers. Sometimes, successful people are living the life they think others, like parents want, but it's not what they really want.

canadian wrote:

You can NEVER get over the death of your child

This.

This story is troubling for many reasons. One that sticks out to me is how she was already undergoing psychotherapy. This should have been caught and addressed right there. I already have little faith in the field of psychology, this story only magnified that feeling. I know people who are depressed and refuse to get help because they believe that talking to another human being isn't going to fix things. Not only that, they can't even afford long-term therapy.

We should be talking more about the deficits of the mental health profession in my opinion. My prayers are with Madison and her family.

Goodridge regime

I hope you are coming through it okay... Things get better, look for all the good around you. Running can be a wonderful salve. If you remain driven, you'll find your niche and happiness

A girl is dead and your number 1 comment is on how well write the article was??? Poor form...

A lot of it has to do with the ability to cope with dissapointment and hardship along with a lot of other factors. In this country, White Americans commit suicide at a rate 5 times higher than Black Americans. Seems counterintuitive, but if your life has always been shitty and you have low expectations for yourself, you've learned to cope with shitty situations. On the other hand if you have the opportunity, resources, and talent to strive for greatness for "perfection" you probably will strive for perfection. The only problem is "perfect" is not possible and people who grew up never having to settle for anything less than perfect or nearly perfect have a really hard time coping when things aren't working out. I won't name the school I go to, but we had a student here attempt suicide recently because she got a C in our neuroscience block. Actually most people got C's but we were happy to just pass. There are some people who refuse to settle for anything less than perfect and that's what gets them.

Sadly, this brings to mind a story of a Dartmouth woman who was further along in her athletic career -- she was a captain of three teams -- who was also a suicide.

http://www.si.com/vault/1995/07/24/204938/an-end-too-soon-dartmouth-grieved-over-the-suicide-of-sarah-devens-a-rare-athlete-and-friend

nfwkefnwk wrote:

This story is troubling for many reasons. One that sticks out to me is how she was already undergoing psychotherapy. This should have been caught and addressed right there. I already have little faith in the field of psychology, this story only magnified that feeling. I know people who are depressed and refuse to get help because they believe that talking to another human being isn't going to fix things. Not only that, they can't even afford long-term therapy.

We should be talking more about the deficits of the mental health profession in my opinion. My prayers are with Madison and her family.

The field of psychology has hundreds of branches in its tree.

Do you mean psychotherapy?

If you read the article, she was clearly holding back how serious or seriously she was considering those thoughts. People fool doctors all the time.

Finding a psychotherapist that works for you is like dating, you have to keep asking for "meet and greets," to hear a therapists approach and see if their personality feels right for you. There are a lot of screwed up psychotherapists who were attracted to the field for their own needs, and some of them are crappy psychotherapists (my neighbor, complete dunce) and there are brilliant psychotherapists (never stop increasing their education and skills."

Psychology/psychotherapists, are just like any field, business sector, it's going to be hit or miss until you find, like say, a place where you like to buy your running shoes, as opposed to the place that say, never has the shoe you want, or you can never get help at.

etc.

There is only ONE reason why ESPN ran a story on her and its a thread on Letsrun..shes pretty. Period.

Tommy2Nuttz wrote:

There is only ONE reason why ESPN ran a story on her and its a thread on Letsrun..shes pretty. Period.

So?

Tommy2Nuttz wrote:

There is only ONE reason why ESPN ran a story on her and its a thread on Letsrun..shes pretty. Period.

Correct. But the gist of the story is that even a pretty and successful girl can commit suicide. If she were fat and ugly everyone would have thought that that was the reason she didn't want to live any longer.

Everybody love such stories. Liberals love them simply because they like to see successful people fail. And conservatives like them because they finally get a chance to play the victim card: "even though she (I) was successful doesn't mean that you shouldn't pity her (me)".

nfwkefnwk wrote:

This story is troubling for many reasons. One that sticks out to me is how she was already undergoing psychotherapy. This should have been caught and addressed right there. I already have little faith in the field of psychology, this story only magnified that feeling. I know people who are depressed and refuse to get help because they believe that talking to another human being isn't going to fix things. Not only that, they can't even afford long-term therapy.

We should be talking more about the deficits of the mental health profession in my opinion. My prayers are with Madison and her family.

You can lead a horse to water...