I need the LetsRun doctors to diagnose me

You're starting off too fast.

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Now a Coach wrote:

You're starting off too fast.

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John Clendon wrote:

the tempo runs were consistently a slugfest

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running science wrote:
I'll give you an insider's advice. Run slower and your tempos won't feel so hard. Amazing, eh?

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John Clendon wrote:

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running science wrote:
I'll give you an insider's advice. Run slower and your tempos won't feel so hard. Amazing, eh?

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A 5:30-5:40 avg tempo shouldn't be the issue that it has become. Last December I could avg 5:20 for the same duration, no problem. Took a few easy weeks around the holidays, and started back up with workotus in mid-end January.

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John Clendon wrote:

Give me your opinions or experiences.

Over the winter (Jan-March), thought I was training smart/well. Ran 70-80mpw consistently with nordic skiing as doubles on the weekend. Tuesdays usually consisted of a 25-30min tempo, Thursdays were usually a quicker paced fartlek style of workout. I live in NY so most of this was outdoors in the snow and 10F weather. The fartleks began to feel better, but the tempo runs were consistently a slugfest to keep a respectable pace.

Tried two 5 mile races at the beginning of April and turned out to be 2min off my PR for both. Backed off of workouts and mileage for a week or two, and nothing really felt any better in my sustained pace workouts.

I have zero problem going for a 10mi run at 7:00 avg down to 6:20 avg. I can close runs at 6min pace without feeling bad at all. It is when I try to get going under 5:50 pace that I crumble. First mile of a race feels great in 5:00 (a little slower than 5mi PR pace), but after that it is a slow painful death.

In the few workouts that I have run with a heart rate monitor, my heart rate will be relatively low (160-170bpm) but I feel like I am going at 200bpm.

Diet is way more well rounded than most 24yr olds should be. And I consistently sleep 7.75-8hrs per night.

Am I overtrained? What am I missing?

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Iron and multi vitamin are a good idea, and easy runs are a bit too fast.
My opinion is not enough speed work. The fartlek done on snow and in cold weather was probably done at a slower pace than it felt. A few weeks of 6x1k at 5k pace, and 8x400 at mile pace will help make 5 minute pace feel more comfortable.

I don't know what your goals are or what race you're focusing on, but it looks like you've got a good base. A lot of runners find it difficult to race fast after just base training, a few quicker workouts and some more races should help.

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No Way wrote:
First of all, I'm assuming your PR is from college. If so, congrats on being even 2 minutes from it at age 24.

Second, we would need a little more info on your training.

I'm guessing your tempo pace is around 5:45-6:00/mile. How fast are you doing the fartleks? Are the 10 mile runs your long runs? How often do you try to push them down to 6:00 pace? My quick guess is that you're doing your easy and long runs too hard. Do you do a proper warmup before races? Try going a little easier on your easy runs and get some race pace intervals going and see how that works.

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I bet you are/were suffering from bad spring allergies. Every year for me, training and racing are going well during the winter. Then spring hits and for about 4-6 weeks all of a sudden I'm in terrible shape. My easy runs aren't easy and I'm struggling through tempo runs at a slow pace. It seems like when the trees change from flowering to green leaves, I'm all of a sudden back in good shape.

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running science wrote:

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John Clendon wrote:

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running science wrote:
I'll give you an insider's advice. Run slower and your tempos won't feel so hard. Amazing, eh?

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A 5:30-5:40 avg tempo shouldn't be the issue that it has become. Last December I could avg 5:20 for the same duration, no problem. Took a few easy weeks around the holidays, and started back up with workotus in mid-end January.

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Run your tempos by feel, and you won't overtrain. Put away your watch for a few weeks and get to know yourself.

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not knowing enough about your workouts makes this hard

I can say this - that if I live on a diet of tempos only, I get really good at HM pace but really can't run at 5k/10k goal pace.

in other words, I have to train at 5k/10k pace to get there.

I don't quite understand why 5:50 pace is hard for you - that should be easy peasy. That is weird. But maybe you meant fast pace generically is hard.

I dunno.

But have you been doing 5 weeks of 5k pace type training? Basic 6 x 800 at 5k work?

If not, do that for 5-6 weeks - most likely you will get much faster at 5k-10k pace. You have to train at fast paces to race fast.

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I hate spring wrote:

I bet you are/were suffering from bad spring allergies. Every year for me, training and racing are going well during the winter. Then spring hits and for about 4-6 weeks all of a sudden I'm in terrible shape. My easy runs aren't easy and I'm struggling through tempo runs at a slow pace. It seems like when the trees change from flowering to green leaves, I'm all of a sudden back in good shape.

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I would agree that, at the moment, allergies are a huge killer. I do take Zyrtec before bed for this.

I don't think allergies were my issue in late march, early april because of how long it took to drop the snow in upstate NY and for the weather to start turning around. The trees just started budding a week ago.

I am probably going to try the route of faster intervals and track work to see where that takes me. Might just have to lower my standards for the rest of this spring season. Take a week off, then re-try building in the summer. Fortunately, I just have shorter races on the schedule for May.

Make sure you're getting a real long run at least every three weeks.

Otherwise just do the tempo by feel, as suggested. It gets harder to do them well when it is warmer out and if allergies are a problem. I remember doing a tempo once where I quit 2 miles in after barely maintaining below a 7 pace. I was like WTF but a week later in cooler conditions everything was normal again.

Is your breathing more difficult? I have asthma and my running always suffers from mid November to about mid April. I can't hit my marathon pace during winter months without feeling like I'm going to die. Cold weather is obviously my trigger, but you might be triggered by cold weather and allergens- explaining why April is still bad for you. How does treadmill running feel for you.?

Sounds to me like you need to flush your legs and stop thinking about this. Maybe you need to relax over the next month. Enjoy the Kentucky Derby, the NBA playoffs, perhaps you have a friends wedding coming up over the next month.

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Dyestat Rumor wrote:

Sounds to me like you need to flush your legs and stop thinking about this. Maybe you need to relax over the next month. Enjoy the Kentucky Derby, the NBA playoffs, perhaps you have a friends wedding coming up over the next month.

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Are you fat? That's been my problem before.

I agree with the responders that said you need to do more race pace workouts.

I have seen a lot of runners finish their college running and do well for a year or two and then fall off fast. Not only do they lose their motivation but their training lacks intensity. Often these are runners finish track seasons with mixed results. They were not great with the intense intervals a lot of coaches use during track season.
After graduating they train like they feel is suited to their style. It would be long runs and tempos. In the fall they hit some great times, even PRs off of this training. It confirms in their mind that they were right all along. What they forget is that they basically did a reverse periodization. If they continue in the next spring with out doing race pace intervals they will start losing their ability to hold race pace.
For these types of runners I suggest an intense period of race pace work, hill sprints and then a period of racing.