Jo Pavey slams the Nike Oregon Project for thyroid Use

AnEndocrinologist wrote:

Here is the story:

...

Body builders abuse it to get excess fat off (what you burn first before muscle typically). Most endurance runners do not have trouble getting weight off. Once you stop being hyperthyroid your weight goes back up.

Spoken by someone who is clearly not an elite endurance athlete. EVERYONE has trouble keeping weight off. If you don't have trouble keeping weight off, you could be lighter! That is the cold hard truth of endurance athletics.

This is not about being healthy long term. It is a power to weight ratio game and if you can drop 2-3 pounds more than your competitors it is a gigantic difference among those contending at Olympics and World Championships.

This loss in weight would be offset by the heat intolerance, diarrhea, anxiety, insomnia, etc from too much thyroid. It has been said by others on this thread, and I agree, you don't see people with hyperthyroidism running well and smashing records

Physician runner wrote:

This loss in weight would be offset by the heat intolerance, diarrhea, anxiety, insomnia, etc from too much thyroid. It has been said by others on this thread, and I agree, you don't see people with hyperthyroidism running well and smashing records

UM, I think Rupp is doing OK.

Physician runner wrote:

This loss in weight would be offset by the heat intolerance, diarrhea, anxiety, insomnia, etc from too much thyroid. It has been said by others on this thread, and I agree, you don't see people with hyperthyroidism running well and smashing records

It's finding that level that's just below hyperthyroidism. That's the theory and a apparent practice. Tweaking it so it's elevated but not to the level that the deleterious effects kick in.

waxerizer wrote:

In what sense is Jo Pavey is doing something impossible? Running great times? Nope. She won the European 10K in 32 minutes 22, against a poor field by international standards, and it was a triumph of experience and tactics, not speed and strength.

There's nothing wrong with winning because you're the best racer.

this is like hearing Kevin Love's quote about how he thinks R. Westbrook should be MVP and then telling your friends "Did you hear KLove says he hates LeBron and Cleveland and he wants out of there ASAP after this season?!?".7/10 troll job OP

USADA fan wrote:

Good for her. Here is her tweet:

https://twitter.com/jopavey/status/582489895127646208

"I'm concerned by the number of athletes reportedly taking thyroid medication. Some might be legitimate but I find the situation worrying."

Article here:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/32120936

What's commendable is she's a rare Nike athlete that is willing to slam something related to Nike while still under Nike contract. Americans like Kara and Nick are quite vocal now but noticeably silent when on the Nike payroll.

Ralen Gup wrote:

Physician runner wrote:

This loss in weight would be offset by the heat intolerance, diarrhea, anxiety, insomnia, etc from too much thyroid. It has been said by others on this thread, and I agree, you don't see people with hyperthyroidism running well and smashing records

UM, I think Rupp is doing OK.

Yeah, but what else is he on?, according to Jos Hermens he has a laundry list of TUE's.

And yeah, yeah I know, Jos Hermens is a douche bag, etc, etc.

Physician runner wrote:

This loss in weight would be offset by the heat intolerance, diarrhea, anxiety, insomnia, etc from too much thyroid. It has been said by others on this thread, and I agree, you don't see people with hyperthyroidism running well and smashing records

Nor do you see people with polycythemia smashing records, and yet EPO works quite well with the right dose.

Nor do you see people with acromegaly smashing records, and yet HGH seems to work quite well with the right dose.

Same can be said for testosterone, and for any other hormone; they all fall along a spectrum where at either end performance suffers, but there is always some point in between where performance peaks as well.

If you're using hormones, and that makes your body stop producing them on it's own, then that means you can find that perfect dose for you after enough trial and error. If you have a lab on your side, you can find that perfect dose a lot faster.

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This won't stick here, but honorable effort for trying to bring reason to the mob.

No TUE's, no l-carnitine, no PEDS, no non-disclosure agreements, no secret labs, no death star. But those facts are bad for business for the Brojos along with the coaches and athletes that slander the NOP.

You don't need a TUE to take thyroid medication or to use an inhaler, both of which can be performance enhancing, or performance degrading; it just depends on figuring out the right dose.

Max Rebo wrote:

No TUE's, no l-carnitine, no PEDS, no non-disclosure agreements, no secret labs, no death star. But those facts are bad for business for the Brojos along with the coaches and athletes that slander the NOP.

0/10.

Rupp admitted having a TUE for thyroid. Rupp, Farah, and AlSal, admitted to using l-cartnitine, former NOP athletes have claimed they were required to sign NDEs, AlSal has been seen entering a secret area on the Nike campus. Thos are the facts. Get them right.

Why take them? wrote:

wasn't it stated wrote:

Didn't Salazar state in an interview last year that Galen et al were no longer taking thyroid medication? I do know he said there were no TUES for his group.

I'm all for exposing cheating etc. but would prefer to actually rely on facts rather than bias, innuendo etc..

Ummm, he WAS taking the meds. If he stopped it means he never had a real need for the meds in the first place.

You can be weened off, to switch medicines or get off meds completely.

Talk to anyone who is an Athlete who is hyperthyroid and you will not find someone say it improved their performance.

First off to get benefits of weight loss you have to have elevated thyroid hormone and thus develop exercise intolerance and mitochondrial dysfunction leading to worse training.

Also the body attempts to protect itself from hyperthyroid state by down regulation of deiodinase type 2 to block active forms of thyroid hormone in the body at the tissue level. Hence the system tries to keep you at certain levels and so you need to overwhelm the system to derive "benefits."

So this weight loss of 3-4 lbs will come at the expense of fatigue, exercise intolerance, possibly muscle loss as thyroid hormone is catabolic and then you gain this weight back when you have to come off it and let your own thyroid axis.

Not a great ped in my opinion where you increase muscle mass, rbcs, or ability to recover with testosterone ,epo, hgh.

So you can talk about numbers all you want either this ideal tsh, but until someone comes in with an RTC showing use of thyroid hormone enhances performance especially in distance running, you have not proven your point!

Then you agree, there was never a reason to take meds in the first place. So why start taking them at all? To get a performance advantage, that is why.

Serious question, are we to assume Doc Brown knows more than the physicians and endocrinologist posting here?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323550604578412913149043072

We aren't talking about hyperthyroid athletes. We are talking about world class athletes tinkering with their own hormones to find a sweet spot.

You talk like muscle loss is a bad thing. How many elite distance runners would actually be well served with a few pounds more muscle rather than a few pounds less? Maybe Kiprop...maybe. Not many others.

AlSal is no dummy, he knows you have to be at your lightest to contend on the world stage. Thyroid meds and inhalers both help, as long as the dosage is right.

you have to be at your lightest to contend on the world stage.

is this true? If so, wouldn't liposuction be rampant in cycling and running? Why isn't it? Or is it?

What is your proof of this magic tsh sweet spot.

To cause muscle mass loss you have to become hyperthyroid! So any weight loss you are talking about comes at a price.

I have patients who come in and tell them they feel better and TSH is higher after a change and are suprised tsh is higher . The reality is this "I feel better at a certain TSH" is all placebo effect.

Again where is your randomized control trial to back this up?

I make people subclinical hyperthyroid after thyroidectomy for thyroid cancer and later if I see good response relax their treatment. Weight stayed stable, no changes in energy level.

Dr. Brown is not a respected authority in thyroid world who has credible peer reviewed publications to back himself up.