Salazar, Farah, talk about use of L-carnitine, a legal supplement with 11% performance gains

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Eat, Sleep, Run, Inject wrote:

Now you're trying, and failing, to minimize how shady this latest NOP enterprise sounds. I hate to break it to you, but flying half-way across the country just to have a certain well-known slime-ball doctor inject you with an amino acid as part of a new protocol that is supposed to magically gain you 2-3 minutes in the marathon without any additional work on your part, is not the same thing as drinking Gatorade.

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CD2 wrote:

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Eat, Sleep, Run, Inject wrote:

Now you're trying, and failing, to minimize how shady this latest NOP enterprise sounds. I hate to break it to you, but flying half-way across the country just to have a certain well-known slime-ball doctor inject you with an amino acid as part of a new protocol that is supposed to magically gain you 2-3 minutes in the marathon without any additional work on your part, is not the same thing as drinking Gatorade.

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+1. It doesn't matter of me if the procedure was technically legal in December of 2011 or December 2012, Ritz is a doper in spirit in my book. It pains me to say it, as he has always been one of my favorite professional runners.

I'm also hugely disappointed in Magness as well. By removing himself from competition, he acknowledged that his tests and injections violated the spirit of fair play. But he undertook these tests knowing that, if successful, Alberto would use these techniques to enhance the performance of his athletes.

I can't help but wonder if Magness had these concerns, realized he made a mistake, and consequently left the NOP prior to the 2012 Olympics. It would also explain his silence about the group then.

Overall, I'm disappointed by the whole situation.

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In agreement wrote:

"I also agree with the posters that claim you've used this message board to destroy the sport all for your financial gain. A kid must think it's impossible to win a medal or run fast time unless they cheat. If they do make it, all they have to look forward to is your website tearing them down to pieces. Well done."

-This was very well stated. I would agree, as would others in the running community I'm involved in. Has been the topic of discussion on more than one long run.

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Again, well said my friend.

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Eat, Sleep, Run, Inject wrote:

[quote]In agreement wrote:

how come the US all-time lists have been re-written in events like the 5000 and 10000, and internationally competitive runners like Webb, Ritz, Solinsky, Rupp, Flanagan, Linden, Tegenkamp, Jager, and True have emerged?

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Folks please just wait ~ three weeks; this message board will melt down ... WooHoo!! "...he's fcuked". Hahahaha..!! You read it here first.

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CD2 wrote:

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Eat, Sleep, Run, Inject wrote:

Now you're trying, and failing, to minimize how shady this latest NOP enterprise sounds. I hate to break it to you, but flying half-way across the country just to have a certain well-known slime-ball doctor inject you with an amino acid as part of a new protocol that is supposed to magically gain you 2-3 minutes in the marathon without any additional work on your part, is not the same thing as drinking Gatorade.

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+1. It doesn't matter of me if the procedure was technically legal in December of 2011 or December 2012, Ritz is a doper in spirit in my book. It pains me to say it, as he has always been one of my favorite professional runners.

I'm also hugely disappointed in Magness as well. By removing himself from competition, he acknowledged that his tests and injections violated the spirit of fair play. But he undertook these tests knowing that, if successful, Alberto would use these techniques to enhance the performance of his athletes.

I can't help but wonder if Magness had these concerns, realized he made a mistake, and consequently left the NOP prior to the 2012 Olympics. It would also explain his silence about the group then.

Overall, I'm disappointed by the whole situation.

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Transparency wrote:

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what it is wrote:
Lactate is the end product of glycolysis, which is blood glucose breakdown, and glycogenolysis which is muscle glycogen breakdown. Blood glucose goes all around the body, not just to the muscles. Actually it probably an advantage to have more glucose going to the brain and less to the muscles, because that is going to cause an increase in muscle acidity with a decrease in running skill.

Now that is a worthwhile hypothesis for ya.

Discuss.

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Pal, no one cares about your "hypothesis" re lactate and no one on LR, except you, considers it worthwhile. If you get a hard on from studying it, good luck to you but come back to us when you can come up with a sensibly "hypothesis" that can be implemented in the real world.

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rekrunner wrote:
Why do you beat up Wejo for something Craig Virgin said? They were both talking about transparency, and not physiology. (This makes it look like you don't always understand what you read.)

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He doesn't, he's an idiot who does a lot of reading which he thinks he understands.

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wejo wrote:

I see this thread got bumped. Not sure if you all saw the second article that came out over the weekend that said NOP may have inadvertently broken doping rules by injecting l-carnitine prior to 2012. USADA apparently told them they could but injections weren't allowed until 2012. Most interesting to me is that Alberto thought the injections might help Dathan Ritzenhein 2-3 minutes in a marathon. See http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/03/sunday-times-says-alberto-salzars-group-may-have-inadvertently-broken-anti-doping-rules-with-l-carnitine-injections/

Now I'll respond to a bunch of comments since I was last on this thread.

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what it is wrote: I am more concerned with something much more important. Something rojo and wejo should be doing; trying to build confidence in young ambitious runners to have more self belief.

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Alberto according to the Times had Dathan Ritzenhein fly to Houston to get an injection that he thought would help him improve 2-3 minutes in the marathon? And we're the ones hurting runners self belief by just reporting what others are saying on this issue?

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what it is wrote:

You are the one who is trolling not me. This ridiculous obsession with drugs is not helping the sport. You can't help empower ambitious young runners with such a hopeless mentality.

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If athletes weren't themselves obsessed with pills and supplements we wouldn't need to report on it.

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what it is wrote:
wejo says that no-one criticizes Ryan Hall for his thyroid issues, but then goes on to criticize Salazar for taking Prednisone and Prozac, neither of which can be considered performance enhancers.

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I was trying to point out that saying "he's on thyroid" can be a loaded statement depending on who you are talking to.

As for Prozac and Predisnone I was trying to point out that Alberto's actions indicate you need a lot more than just traditional supplements to be the best. I was critical for him implying one thing and doing another.

Prednisone is a banned substance in competition but can be used out of competition so I woudn't say it can't help performance. It is banned in competition.

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wtf?????? wrote:

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what it is wrote:

I also don't believe in the concept of so called 'performance enhancing drugs'

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wtf is this supposed to mean?

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obsessive or what wrote:

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Transparency wrote:

Pal, no one cares about your "hypothesis" re lactate and no one on LR, except you, considers it worthwhile. If you get a hard on from studying it, good luck to you

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maybe 'what it is' is on lactate to deal with his lactate obsessive disorder

Lactate infusions in obsessive-compulsive disorder http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/4014509

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Aren't you the good science bad science idiot that made the thread that EPO and blood boosting was pointless and got absolutely destroyed by people with physiology backgrounds?

The poster who was arguing with me was contradicting himself over and over, and talking an awful lot of pseudoscience. This poster, aka Sir Lance a-lot/ Tyrannosaurus Rexing, is well known for arguing endlessly about things he doesn't understand. Have you been posting here long?

Try reading through it. But I will understand if you find that intolerable.

I did follow the whole thread, I've posted here for about 12 years and was not speaking about T Rex, and you contradicted yourself more than your detractors.

I didn't contradict myself at all. I was consistent. I raised points that the other guy was completely unaware of.

My basic point is that everyone is taught that EPO injections supposedly increase oxygen supply, but that would require more metabolic work to be done, when in fact elites run faster because they are more efficient.

Running is a skill. a point most runners overlook.

He contradicted himself by saying that fat was more efficient than glycogen and then spend two weeks arguing the exact opposite.

That's just for starters. We are talking about a guy with a serious personality disorder here. At first I thought was just pretending to be an ex phys expert for a joke, but actually he really wanted people to believe it. Look up any old posts by him under those other names and you'll see what I mean.

Increasing oxygen supply during training allows one to become more efficient. But I am done talking to a brick wall and diverting from the point of this thread, which is about L-carnitine not the legitimacy of doping improvements. Just wanted to point out to others that you were thoroughly debunked elsewhere.
Lastly, admitting that doping exists and helps elite endurance athletes does not drive away youth participation or force them to believe they have to cheat to succeed, as you seem to suggest.

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yhrebray wrote:

Increasing oxygen supply during training allows one to become more efficient. .

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I am the #1 April Fool.

BTW: I refuse to register my nic, so bigger fools have been stealing it.