Ryan Hall DNFs at LA. Will he ever run a good marathon again?

I just re-watched the Olympic Trials where Hall came in second. Recall that he was under a heavy dose of Ibuprofen to alleviate his plantar fasciitis issues at the time. Even under this pain, he was still able to do very well.

During the pre-race interview, when asked what his strategy was, his answer was, "My strategy is to have no strategy."

Hall seemed to be in terrific shape for the OT. Looking at his performance in the LA Marathon, he just didn't seem to "pop" and perhaps the heat was a contributing factor. However, I still think he's suffering from conditioning issues as well.

I tend to agree with others, insofar as I just don't think his head is fully in the game.

RunnerSTL wrote:

Hall seemed to be in terrific shape for the OT. Looking at his performance in the LA Marathon, he just didn't seem to "pop" and perhaps the heat was a contributing factor. However, I still think he's suffering from conditioning issues as well.

I tend to agree with others, insofar as I just don't think his head is fully in the game.

"Didn't seem to pop" is underselling it quite a bit. Ryan Hall should not be running slower than B-standard pace in the first 10 miles of the marathon. And if he is, he should be fresh as a daisy and ready to crank the last 10. It's just mind-boggling. I guarantee he does long tempo runs at that pace with very little difficulty.

Nutella1 wrote:

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Ryan Hall's 2:04 was a curse. He truly believed he could reproduce this result in other Marathons and has trained like a 2:04 Marathoner.

But when you're a 2:06 high Marathon and train like a 2:04 Marathoner, you get injured.

His 2:04 in Boston was (adjusted for the wind) worth 2:08. A solid performance but nothing special.

Sam with Davila/Linden.

Hall's next fastest marathon was 2:06:17 (London 2008). Seems more "2:06 low."

The "wind adjustment" to 2:08 seems a bit much -- but since it's all speculative in any case, let's speculate with comparisons to some of the other top finishers in that windy 2011 Boston race. The top five all ran PBs on that day:

G. Mutai 2:03:02. Next fastest marathon 2:04:15 (Berlin 2012) +1:13

M. Mosop 2:03:06. Next fastest 2:05:03 (Rotterdam 2012) +:57

G.Gebremariam 2:04:53. Next fastest 2:07:59 (NYC 2011) +2:06

Hall 2:04:58. Next fastest 2:06:17 (London 2008) +1:19

A. Cherkos 2:06:13. Next fastest 2:07:08 (Seoul 2014) +:55

Four of these have run about a minute or so slower than their 2011 Boston times. Gebremariam has a greater difference, but NYC is also a slower course. Those 2011 times seem to be "worth" about a minute or maybe two minutes slower. I trust the actual relationships between actual times than some other estimate of 'wind adjustment.'

As for the curse, it seems not to have affected those other 4, each of whom approached that very fast time sometime soon afterward -- 3 within the next year; Cherkos taking longest. The other one -- Hall -- is distinctive in this small group for not coming close to that 2011 performance. If it was a "curse" for Hall alone amongst these 5, then it is related to his approach to his sport, i.e., of apparently not having a plan when one prepares for or engages in marathon competition. However nice and humble and talented and accomplished, and hardworking (in some way) that he is or may be, Mr. Hall seems distinctive among many recent internationally competitive marathoners in that he does not seem to devote any thought to what he is doing, and he seems 'proud' of that, if that is the right description of such an approach. I am neither a fan nor a detractor of his -- I would like to see him do well, as I would like to see lots of these athletes do well. But I find his expressed lack of attention to the actual process of preparation to be puzzling. Were I his employer (i.e., ASICS), I would be asking some questions about our return on investment at this point.

So much talkie talkie. Hall clearly just isn't fit. End of story. He needs to train better and get his head on straight. That has nothing to do with religion. He was a religious not at 2:06 and 59. That hasn't changed.

Bottom line, he's not training well and clearly has lost any sort of mental capacity to race well. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think this video of him training in January shows what's wrong with him. My interpretation from the video, he's afraid of knowing splits and specific numbers from training because its disconcerting if he does a workout at marathon pace and is a lot slower than he was back in the day. So if he does it by effort he doesn't have to face the cold hard truth til race then can blame it on not "waking up on the right side of the bed".

His head is his problem. He's not as fit as he once was, and his psyche isn't where it should be to go about doing his best in his current situation.

The Philosophy of Ryan Hall:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-philosophy-of-ryan-hall?intcid=mod-most-popular

Further up thread I said that Hall is probably done. I still think he is, but it's worth saying a couple of things:

1. There were, what, 4, 5 years when it was not a foregone conclusion that he would not win whatever marathon major he chose to run. There is no American born marathoner about whom that can be said. Not one. We haven't seen his like since before there even were marathon majors (or any important marathons outside the olympics, NYC, Boston and Fukuoka) While we should be grateful for this, the fact that he never did win any rankles. And not only we his fans, but also, I'm sure, he himself. That's why, though he's had a spectacular career, it's not quite enough. Even having won just one of those races would change everything. In terms of sheer ability, Hall was, at his best, much better than Meb. But because Meb has his two major wins and his OG medal and 4th place, his career is judged to be far far better than Hall's. Until Hall accepts this or corrects this he's going to have trouble both letting the sport go and succeeding in it.

2. There are TONS of guys who have gone through longer slumps than Hall and have come back gloriously. Who? Well, Meb for one. Another quick example: Carlos Lopes who missed roughly 5 years with achilles tendon and other troubles but came back better than ever (and that was pretty damned good) at the age of 35, 36, 37. I don't think Hall can come back to a world class level again. Once you've messed up your hamstring and your stride - as he seems to have - it's pretty much over. If he was a race horse, he'd be put out to stud or shot. But, that doesn't mean it's impossible. After all, like the rest of you rummies I'm just some guy on the internet. I hope you're not reading this Ryan, but, if you are know this: Most of the comments on these threads are just expressions of disappointment. There's only one thing worse than that. Nobody ever being disappointed in you at all, because they had no reason to expect you to succeed. Keep doing it as long as you enjoy it. Stop otherwise. There's more - much more - to life than running fast.

agc5k wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLvkXJtLJHQ

I think this video of him training in January shows what's wrong with him. My interpretation from the video, he's afraid of knowing splits and specific numbers from training because its disconcerting if he does a workout at marathon pace and is a lot slower than he was back in the day. So if he does it by effort he doesn't have to face the cold hard truth til race then can blame it on not "waking up on the right side of the bed".

His head is his problem. He's not as fit as he once was, and his psyche isn't where it should be to go about doing his best in his current situation.

Wow that is rather a turn about on what is typically a great workout. I'm a big fan of getting off the track and running by feel when you're trying to get over a mental barrier - "I can't do 5x800 at x pace" or "I can't break xx:xx in a 5k"

Getting away from the track and running 5 x 2-3-4 minutes at 5k effort can sometimes surprise some some speed out folks with a mental barrier.

Not taking away the importance of sharpening that on the track, but it can sometimes be good to get splits out of your head.

That said, sounds like Hall is working the reverse of that. He runs perceived marathon pace or what not...but when he's on the course and the clock is in front of him it psychs him out that his his perceived effort isn't jibing.

Running w/out a watch on a marathon could be a good experience for him, but he'll have to pick a small one without a pace car in front (or at least one with out a pace car that has a clock)!

When things get tough he quits.

I was a fan until he dropped out of the Olympics. IMO you crawl to the finish line if need be in the Olympics.

agc5k wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLvkXJtLJHQ

I think this video of him training in January shows what's wrong with him. My interpretation from the video, he's afraid of knowing splits and specific numbers from training because its disconcerting if he does a workout at marathon pace and is a lot slower than he was back in the day. So if he does it by effort he doesn't have to face the cold hard truth til race then can blame it on not "waking up on the right side of the bed".

He said he's stopped timing his workouts. I'm dumbfounded.

Also, compare his form in your video to the one below. It sure seems like his form has worsened over the years. And why shouldn't it? You can even hear Mahon shouting cues at Ryan in the below one.

Link wrote:

...There were, what, 4, 5 years when it was not a foregone conclusion that he would not win whatever marathon major he chose to run. There is no American born marathoner about whom that can be said. Not one.

I can name one:

Joan Benoit Samuelson

wow, you are so right!!! He looked beastly out there in the Ole video. Watching it like "how in the world did he just do that workout? dude is fit!!!" Plus his form was sooooo smooth.

He doesn't look bad in the January video. But in it he looks a very good runner like in the 2:14 area plus or minus. But in Ole he looked like a guy who could get top 5 at marathon majors year in year out.

His fitness isn't as good, his form isn't as good, and his head isn't as good. He isn't "done" in the sense that if his head is in the right place he could make the Olympic team in 11 months, but he's "done" in the sense that he will never again be competitive on the world stage

[quote]rojo wrote:

It amazes me so many people bash Hall. I should right a column about how it can easily be argued he's the greatest American-born runner in US history.

Ah Rojo you affirm my belief in a quality IVY league education no wonder why this country so so FU with the IVYs running it.

He is done. Add him to the list that includes Webb, Fernandez, Ritz, and Goucher. Too bad.

Link wrote:

Most of the comments on these threads are just expressions of disappointment. There's only one thing worse than that. Nobody ever being disappointed in you at all, because they had no reason to expect you to succeed.

that's why I prefer Meb, he's worse than disappointment to the tune of 2 majors and olympic metal.

Ryan Hall went from a 3:42.x 1500 guy and 1:51 and sub 9, a wunderkind talent in HS

to never winning a Cross title

To running 13:16 and then stopping at that

never ran a relevant 10K or improved at 1500

and has run 1-3 1 offs in the rest of his career

sub 1:00 Yes

2:04 downwind marathon and a 2:06 on fast course

what else in literally 13 years

Yet has been paid all the way

what else has he done?

I don't understand how he just decides to quit mid-race when things aren't going his way. Unless you are hurt, how is that excusable? Gut it out, finish. Run 3:00 if you have to. But finish. You talk about inspiring others on their running journey, then quit like a petulant child when things aren't easy? It's infuriating.

Ryan is an immensely talented wuss. When he's fit and things come easy, he does great. When things are tough he crumbles like stale coffee cake. He needs a coach who is as adept at dealing with neuroses as they are at writing work outs. Undoubtedly there is inevitable physical deterioration, but Ryan has a hell of a lot more ability than his recent performances have shown.

Ryan Hall tweeted that he was training together with his wife. She was doing a 16mi tempo while he was doing a LR.

In other words, he ran his LR too fast.

My guess is his marathon career is done, but wouldn't be surprised to see him announce a move to ultra marathoning. Perhaps we'll see him pursue Comrades in 2017, just as his friend Josh Cox did a few years ago.